Correction it is more akin to “I ran it 100 times, and there was a 10% chance for me not to get it”. As i said, no matter how many attempts you group together, that odds will never hit 100%. And out of a million players farming something, you might very well be the 1% that never gets it at all.
People are still expected to consume old content through transmog farming.
And blizzard could at any point re-scale old raids slapping new rewards on them if they wanted.
this isn’t entirely true.
mounts, toys, pets, transmog… all count towards collections and achievements which have cumulative rewards.
how about no.
Smells like misunderstanding of probability in here.
2 Likes
Guys op is not saying that the chance increases. The formula basically shows your overall chance of getting it given x attempts. You DO have a higher chance of getting the mount given 100 attempts vs 10. Simply because youve rolled the dice more.
1 Like
In terms of the actual gameplay, it is true though. In terms of collecting and one’s own goals and all of that, I mean… sure. But at that point you are still looking at the act of the collecting which in turn becomes part of the farming aspect so…
For all intent’s and purposes, there’s no realistic difference.
None of these systems are predatory. And the skinner box experiment with the rat is about understanding psychology; here’s the reality of 99.99% of all games (heck, I would even say that 99.99% of all activities excluding work related ones) make use of parts of the psychology that it demonstrates.
Understanding what the skinner box experiment actually did provides us with an understanding of how we are conditioned yes. But to apply it the way you are doing it rather than understanding it as an experiment … you do realize that this forum, and most other forms of social media, rely on it as well?
You responding to me with rhetoric such as “predatory” or “skinner box” has a higher likelihood of eluding a particular response. Which in turn creates social engagement between yourself and the perceived person on the other end writing this out to you (since you cannot know that I’m a living person or a clever AI, just the same way I cannot know you are a living person or a clever AI).
Yes, specifically “skinner box design” is a thing to be aware of and to avoid if that’s all there is to it. But putting multiple activities within a single activity and deriving it with such an oversimplification and generalization as you are doing, that’s utterly pointless. No one would call painting a “skinner box” but by the way you are using it, because you end up with a reward for hard work and sometimes you end up with a particular painting that you really like more than the other things you produce … by how you are using “skinner box”, that would quantify as one.
This is why this is a very pointless stance to take. It is a game, if your sole purpose of playing the game is to single-mindedly farm things with no other enjoyment from it, then sure. That’s a problem. But to make the claim that folks in general play games with this single-minded reason … then you gotta have some pretty darn strong evidence for that.
Because that is an insanely broad statement to make. About next to any game, or at least the ones that aren’t colloquially known as gambling simulators.
1 Like
Well sure, if I ran something enough times, eventually the item/mount is going to drop. It’s a 1% drop chance every run, but you’ll get it eventually. If you roll a pair of dice, you’re going to inevitably get snake eyes. I think what people are thinking he’s saying is that after 100 runs or so, there’s a 90% chance he’ll get whatever he’s after.
The thing two things this game has taught me over the years is patience and vigilance ,patience to put up with it and vigilance to keep going, but rng is like pulling hairs on these both of them that after awhile I just pass them by.
Got it on my lock the first week tho
Saying “Eventually” is playing into gamblers fallacy and sunk-cost. It’s a 1% drop, it will always be a 1% drop, and you might very well be the player unlucky needing a statistically unlikely amount of tries needing to get it. An amount that might exceed how long you end up playing this game.
Hence why a pity system should have been precent, since currently the game is condemning you with nothing rather than rewarding you for participating.
5 Likes
Yes it’s a game. But these mechanics are not designed to treat it as such, it’s designed to keep players hooked and you can be sure Blizzard and games likes Gacha specifically hire mathematicians and psychologists that are tasked with figuring out the the optimal numbers for “player retention”.
2 Likes
Seriously, how many attempts do you have on that? You can run that dungeon on every alt every day.
113 runs needed for a 99% chance of getting it!
170 for 99.9%!
Just by us typing here means we have all beaten the odds of 1/400,000,000,000,000.
Getting a rare mount drop is slightly harder, but it can still be done.
I think really rare mounts and other such drops should have a 1% drop rate after the end of the expansion. For a time-limited holiday event or rotating world boss mount it should be higher.
But seriously, if you’re trying to convince me you have thousands of attempts on Raven Lord mount, I’m going to think it only feels like thousands of attempts. A mount you were able to farm every day on every alt for the last 15 years…? No. And Rivendare’s Deathcharger is a normal dungeon. Run in, run out, reset, repeat.
The dungeon mounts are less problematic than the raid mounts, since you need less alts and generally shorter paths.
But for the raids, especially those without skips shouldn’t have been tolerated.
It’s true they are less problematic, but we still see complaints.
My boyfriend’s ex-wife farmed Ashes of Al’ar for years before finding out it doesn’t drop off Al’ar. So there’s that, too.
The first time I farmed Voidtalon of the Darkstar I had multiple accounts with lots of characters. I set up a system that got it for me in 2 weeks. On this account, I don’t have that. I designed a system around my account and got it in 2 days.
Honestly, I feel like raid mounts should at least drop a one per account token each week, and after 100 weeks you should be able to just convert those tokens into the mount.
I took this idea out of the significantly more player friendly method Savage mount farming from XIV, but added a pinch of WoW-Screw-You to it. There’s generally only 50 some weeks in a year, so this way you’d have to farm once every week for about 2 years before you see the mount. That that, it will still take a long time but at least there is an actual light at the end of the tunnel.
Event mounts are trickier, because 100 tokens would be insane to even comprehend. Though they really should just stop being stupid and make event mounts rewards for being around during the events instead of a gambling FOMO tactic to make you grind it instead.
They pretty much already did add in the “pity system” with the MoP world mounts and holiday mounts. When I finally did get the Sha mount, I admit it wasn’t the dopamine rush I expected. I did that boss well over 700 times, and if I got it before the buff, I would’ve been on cloud 9.