Well, there are some conditions for his return IMO. He needs to finally accept his responsibility for the tragedies of Garrosh (vengeance isn’t him taking responsibility, its him taking a quick route to shirk it). He needs to get back to his roots (hence my hope he’s in Outlands Nagrand). He needs to ditch the damned beads, get the hair back, and go back to being Thrall (not JUST the World Shaman).
I really don’t see either the Horde or the Alliance working without a central figure.
YES. Sylvanas has had nothing but solid, good plans from the beginning. Wrathgate almost killed Arthas. Gilneas was super successful. Stormheim would’ve gone off without a hitch if Alliance would have held the truce. Teldrassil should have succeeded but Malfurion survived. Lordaeron would have been impregnable but Anduin became Jesus and Jaina came in Deus ex Machian (IIRC she was gone and wasn’t even officially with the Alliance anymore / AWOL until that very battle), unprecedented, you can’t prepare against that. But even in the event that they got to the Throneroom, Sylvanas had them cornered to kill all the Alliance leaders. If Jaina weren’t there to port them out they’d have died to the plague. Alleria can port but she can’t put up an arcane barrier. Then there’s all the events in BfA, Saurfang, the scepter, Baine. It’s like Sylvanas is fighting Fate itself.
He’s 100% a traitor if his opposition to Sylvanas is serious. Just by being in the wind, he threatens the stability of the Horde. (See: Zekhan.) Of course, my theory is that Saurfang is doing now exactly what he did in “A Good War” - pulling the wool over the eyes of Anduin to serve the Warchief in the end.
What did you think of Vol’jin’s opposition to Garrosh?
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Malfurion has been a predominately neutral character ever since his return in Cataclysm and has only ever been associated with the Alliance through Tyrande, of course, being his wife he has to support her. It’s only now that he’s firmly standing with the Alliance since we murdered a ton of his people and tried to assassinate him.
And even THAT’S a moot point cuz Hamuul was there too to represent us Hordies in the Firelands.
What about Brann? Once again, his brother Muradin is on the Alliance, so obviously he’s going to side with his brother. He’s simply helping out the faction he’s primarily associated with in the same way when Gazlowe obviously supports the Horde in Island expeditions. I don’t see the problem here.
Dude, are you rlly going to argue me on this one? The Alliance literally were just background characters to Vol’jin and a predominately Horde narrative throughout the entirety of MoP. I shouldn’t have to explain that to you.
The only one losing this point is you, my friend.
So…two devs? This is a joke, right? I swear, you people just love to only throw the blame on developers who’s names’ you actually know instead of addressing the team as a whole.
Get outta here, ToW was fine, the only problem was how long it’s took for Jaina to finally get closure on that arc. Warcrimes was also fine, but like I stated before, Christie had to work with the stuff she’s was given, she doesn’t have much influence beyond novelizing it and making look the least stupid it can.
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The important aspect of this system is that we’re almost always at war with something. The central figure would be there, but it would allow the spotlight to rotate around between different characters with more investment in whatever conflict we have as opposed to Anduin and whatever dictator Blizzard opts to put in permenant charge of the Horde always calling the shots.
Anduin and the current Warchief have only been in power for a short while. Dial down a notch and stop this silly ‘always calling the shots’ nonsense.
Man you must be ignorant as all hell, if you really believe that.
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My issues are more about the position than the people occupying them. The warchief being a for life* position has now twice caused the entire horde to be dragged down the lolevil route and I’m very tired of it. Something like I proposed would at least ensure it was temporary and that we could feasibly keep the eviler characters around after their time as Warchief concluded instead of making them a villain we need to all put down.
And I never liked the High King concept to begin with for the Alliance.
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There was no problem with the position of Warchief from Vanilla to Cataclysm. They shook it up with MOP but the biggest problem now is that they’re literally redoing the “evil Warchief” storyline because they felt they didn’t do a good job the first time.
We’re not looking at real world events playing out on their own accord. We’re looking at what happens when a writing team insists on do-overs ever other expansion for storylines they arbitrarily feel weren’t effective the first time.
High King, HIgh COmmander, Grand Poobah, Head Honcho. Call it whatever you like, someone in the Alliance is gonna be at the top of the whole thing and will probably be a human.
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No it wasn’t. It was predicated upon destroying Alliance capacity in Kalimdor through destruction or occupation. She didn’t do it just to sow divide… What? Whether the Gilneans rally to the Night Elves or not doesn’t matter. A hostage is a hostage. Infighting was clearly the cherry on top, not the whole sundae.
Also, Sylvanas might be wily enough to give the Gilneans free passage out of the Occupied Territories.
I mean she might have. But judging from Legion, she probably assumed that Genn was still pissed about how she killed his son in front of his face.
Yes, and we’ve lost two decent characters (one of which was really the only character for an entire race when he kicked the bucket) and may very well lose a third because of it. I’d like a system where we could potentially do “What if x was Warchief” and not have them die two expansions later so the next person gets a shot.
People once said the same of the Horde and orcs.
I have no problem with Anduin. I think he’s an alright character and a fine leader for Stormind. But I do think it’s silly a young, inexperienced leader is immediately thrust into the role of leader of the entire Alliance.
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I wanna make sure you understand what I’m saying.
The system itself is not bad.
The writing team behind the narrative is bad.
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Not according to A Good War.
Some things bolded for emphasis.
Creating a rift in the Alliance was absolutely a key component of their plan.
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We agree on that.
However, I feel a new system could give them the ability to do some of their ideas without making pants on head stupid decisions.
That’s the point I’m trying to make.
Imagine if we lived in a world where what we read in the game and what we read in the short stories actually corellated.
Oh, if only.
It’s considered as canon as anything in the game and there’s actually not that many inconsistencies between versions.
Some. But nothing that directly contradicts these scenes with Saurfang and Sylvanas.
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Vol’jin survived an assassination attempt orchestrated by Garrosh against him. The circumstances are different. And by the time the rebellion happens, Garrosh has already racially purged the capital, pushed Orcish supremacy, commited to Military Occupation and Martial Law of the Echo Isles, and mana-bombed Theramore (and yes, I get that sounds hypocritical, but Saurfang was an integral part of Teldrassil and agreed with the tactical necessity and the contingencies in case it couldn’t be held; but you can disregard this one if you want, it’s just sort of tacked-on). More importantly - and this is the real crux of it - Vol’jin had the support of nearly all of the other Horde leaders, besides Gallywix whose opinion no one knew. Saurfang (if his treachery is real) went off on his own after getting depressed without consulting a single member of the Horde leadership about his doubts - and only Baine so far has demonstrated any real will to do something about it, and it still took Derek Proudmoore to make that happen.