I’d probably quit because the only real source of progression for me – M+ – would be dead and I like being able to progress.
Can progress personal skill
Can still progress difficulty with the gear you have
It’s all sponges and instagibs. At a certain point the dumb to fun ratio gets waaaaay out of wack in M+.
Just like with gear there comes a point when this just isn’t going to happen and likely isn’t worth it depending upon your priorities.
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I don’t think Mythic raiding could function without loot. Good luck assembling a team to clear a raid once or twice and then maintaining it until next tier.
Ultimates worked in FF14 because you only needed 8 people, and it was only a single fight 1-2x an xpac.
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I want to progress gear.
Yeah, either the garbage from questing/reps or what I get from raiding.
And I don’t like raiding.
We’re already basically at that point where mythic raid offers little to no loot relative to the freebie handouts of +10 keys
Anybody raiding doing it for love of the game
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Yea, I’ve accepted years ago endless scaling content is not my jam lol.
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Proven by the numerous requests for dinars to allow the purchase of mythic raid BiS from bosses people can’t/haven’t killed. Truly.
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At some point you need personal skill to gain the next level of gear though.
Can give a bunch of people mythic raid gear and they still wont clear Heroic
/shrug
True and like I said those are people that have reached a personal peak that isn’t ever going to improve or people who settle for a certain level of play because they don’t prioritize going further.
Gear is objectively an equalizer in the game anyhow.
That said, people prove every season that they’ll play M+ for no gear upgrades when they continue to push beyond +10.
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No, but not because of what your question is about, but rather because of this:
I wouldn’t be playing the game as that’d be boring as all hell.
So it isn’t that I wouldn’t be doing Mythic dungeons, but I would simply not play the game at all if gearing progression was scrapped. Because it is fun to progress your character.
Take gear out of the equation. Quests and achievements now allow you to gain talent points as a progression system.
Play then?
You just described a more boring version of Diablo. Furthermore, no - questing is once and then done for all of the interesting stuff, dailies are insanely boring to treat as an activity rather than as a means towards something, and achievements are fun when they are actual achievements.
Not just “Do random X thing”; but rather stuff that makes a meaningful and fun difference.
Gear progression is way more enjoyable than all the rest of that nonsense as it is far more tangible than “Do 0.000000001% more something.” Because that’s ultimately what Diablo boiled down to once you had no longer any more gear to progress towards, ergo why seasons were important to make that flow work so folks had multiple systems (including gearing) to progress to make it repeatable and fun.
The long and short… not really.
Gear doesn’t have to look like the way it does in WoW, but to replace it with merely just “random numbers” is lazy, boring, and exceedingly tiresome.
Yes, i find them fun.
Indeed, nothing wrong with different goals from the second group what they should do to is VETO and just invite people that have the same goals in mid.
The first group can also do the same, get in a key and say that is just for completion or that they don’t care about the timer because they can also make a group with their same mind set.
But lest be honest, the 2nd group will just complain about “gatekeeping”, “elitism” and “toxicity”, even if they are wrong.
Thats what gear is though, essentially. Do the same things but “random number multiplier” more.
With what I described, they’d have to revamp the entire questing/leveling experience though. It wouldn’t be a speed through it all on my way to max level thing. It would have to be more of an open world set up with certain areas being more difficult and requiring more “talent” points to be strong enough to handle (like early WoW zones having level recommendations).
Thered need to be some form of gear progression too though with this idea. Just not as much of an impact on a standalone like it is now
Except it isn’t, as gear have a specific connotation of it ‘being’ something. Whereas a number is just a number.
I have played games like this, and gamemodes like this, and tons of stuff like this and I can safely say this much … No, even games like Tales of Symphonia you still have gear as part of your progression.
Because to make quests the primary focus, you’d have to look at hundreds of hours long RPGs. Which WoW isn’t and hasn’t been for decades. So… yeah, no.
Gear is fun because ‘it’ is ‘something’ to obtain which has a tangible effect on your character. Rather than an indistinguishable upgrade that is only felt after you have accrued hundreds if not thousands of talent points.
Youre telling me that upgrading a single piece of gear 3 ilvls doesnt fall into this category?
Hell, some gear upgrades actually make you weaker lol
Yes.
A single piece of gear have the ability to contain multiples of different stats, which will have a noticeable difference on your character. Even if it is just something as simple as you getting more health.
Reduce that down to a single number that you have to upgrade or progress, then you end up with boring upgrades such as “0.001% more health” and the like, or you take it to the other extreme and make everything a “1% upgrade” at which point you are now looking at needing thousands of points to get a “worthwhile” amount of upgrades.
I know what you mean, but I do want to point out your language here because this is literally impossible. Anything that is an “upgrade” will make you stronger because that is the context of how we use the term “upgrade” for gear in WoW.
Not all forms of higher ilvl pieces will be upgrades, most will but not all. But this offers more options in the form of customization, goal setting, min-maxxing, or just folks putting on whatever higher ilvl gear they find because it is “good enough.”
If this were just a number then “Higher number = Always better, therefore, always put points into progress tree” which is stale and not fun. There’s a reason why even Diablo makes you have to balance your points (I don’t remember what they are called) so you have to upgrade everything equally, since that means your character will be more equal but it also means that you don’t have to care about every single level you obtain past max level.
Yes because mogs are why I play content. Is why I forced myself to reach max item level in remix too. So I could get the sargerei set for one m+30 run, mythic raids and heroic world quests.
Even did so for PvP back in time when PvP was still alive.
But that’s not how it has to be. Our talent trees are a perfect example of gaining talents as a form of progression (though via leveling). It doesn’t have to be reduced down to like what AP was in Legion (good example with Remix being current).
At some point, gear stops, but the game continues on in its never ending loop. Same would be for a talent style progression system. Eventually you’ll tap out for that patch and either stop playing or take on the challenging content with no further upgrades coming your way.
But that’s not what it has to be. I mean that’s the simplest form. But I did mention our talent tree being the avenue for upgrade/progression (just as an example). This quest line/achievement results in a specific ability, or specific power increase, etc etc. I agree that if every upgrade was simply a 1% increase, it would be boring. But that’s not what I’m suggesting.
Some gear, some talents, some abilities, some straight random number upgrade, etc etc could all be rewards and forms of progression without having to have gear be the “be all end all” of progression.