Cool nice use of an exaggeration to prove your point. And everything that you said is subjective and can be easily explained away to fit your point of view just because blizzcon 2007 and the wrath reveal happened to occur before 2.3 and 2.4.
Until testimony from devs of the time and blizzard state what you have said, then my statement holds.
And easy mode is subjective as well. I know that you have hidden your profile to hide any potential inspection of your profile but you fail to note that even with that option turn on in the client certain achievements and the website still leak through. Dollars to donuts you never did any of the attunements and as such you have no basis on whether to judge on how easy or hard they were. Only that they should exist come legacy tbc until the final phase so as to emulate the progression of content that tbc had.
No more discussion on this is needed.
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No level cap increase just stay at 60 forever.
Uhh I think the other guy makes more sense then you. No point in a level squish/xp reduction if there is no new game coming out. TBC content will be relevant on their servers so no one will miss out on content.
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TBC was freakin awesome. Wouldnt change it.
Buuut, i do wonder what it would have been like with the old honour system.
Edit: Also, must keep attunements, the end game journey was just as amazing as the leveling journey in Vanilla (and jist as fulfilling).
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It is a change and would be against the no changes motto.
I will state that though blizzard doing it for patch 2.3 was a rather bad decision on their part by lowering the barrier to level cap progression, they effectively shifted the population of players more towards end game. That influx of less capable players combined with the constant of new players that replaced older subs throughout wrath (stagnation of subs during wrath aka an asymptote or carrying capacity of the sub population), led to the formation of the wrath baby meme. And now there exists a large portion of players that would still be leveling but are now level cap, and not skilled blizzard during wrath had to come up with a bandaid fix to create content for such an audience. In comes LFD. An automated way to allow those players to join with others, while simultaneously still not learning how to play their class. Naturally by foot in the door approach, this evolves into LFR eventually. But before that and with cata launch we receive the debacle of cata pre-nerf heroics and the outcry of them being too difficult. I agree with everyone here that the removal of barriers is actually deleterious to the health of the game and lowers the bar of expectations in performance for players.
However I believe that through all its faults TBC and wrath legacy servers should be released in their 2.4.3 and 3.3.5 iterations with all systems that they had. No revisions. It is disingenuous and whitewashes the legacy of such games. Essentially as I interpret and as Blizzard has stated classic and any potential servers are essentially “museums” for lack of a better word and are official products that allow customers to interact and play such content that is no longer available as it was.
Lastly, I will state that we need to have those mistakes and successes be presented to us, to give us constant reminders of what we have done and what we need to better for future products. Not to have them be iterated and nitpicked to death to create some alternate timeline version.
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So create legacy servers to get hype for a 2.0 version? You don’t sound like your all for the longevity of the servers but more for the authenticity. Not a good long term plan. Think about new developments versus historical sites and which has more visitors and interest surrounding them.
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I hate with a passion when people throw omg flying killed wpvp. Wpvp was dying long before and practically dead by the time 1.12 rolled around. Between DHK and Bgs gone were the days of massive brawls occasionally during peak some hot spots would flare up but other than that it was a dying breed. Blizzard tried adding some pvp aspect into the world like the towers in hellfire and people barely touched them not in any massive combat. The reality is people didn’t actually want a full on battle to the death wpvp they wanted im 70 and I want to go around and kill 60s. Which flying actually helped that more as you had to be max level to fly. I had my fair share of questing and some level 70 swoops down and now im dead. However with or without flying wpvp was dying and would have continued to.
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They also added world objectives in the run up to BC to revitalize world pvp. Towers in EPL tug of war system in Silithus none of it really recapturing the spirit of what happened early in the game when it was so much easier to just jump into AB, WSG or AV.
Yet to this day people will say that flying was the root cause as opposed to the reward systems that were added.
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Yeah, leave flying in, I loved that my Druid could literally never get ganked after getting flying. Better gank avoidance than bubble hearth.
Every convenience has its price. Flying mounts diminish world PvP, Blizzard learned this in TBC and it’s why Wintergrasp was created in WoTLK.
Actually wintergrasp was done because they were trying to create vehicle combat. We seen in it some earlier on and people wanted it so blizzard tried it and it had mild success but not as much as they hoped.
People asking for 40 man raids are high AF. More 10 man raids if anything.
In TBC and Wrath, 10man raids struck a good balance of skill-based progression (with a few exceptions usually requiring specific tank comps). Kara was fairly entry-level, ZA was tuned quite well for bear mounts. 3 Drake OS was tightly tuned in 10 man - as was Ulduar and ICC with their hard modes.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I generally despise 25 man raids and loathe 40 mans. The more people you add, the less accountable each individual is and you end up with players who simply aren’t a positive addition to the experience. It breeds cliques within the raid/guild which eventually results in drama/splits.
No, I specifically remember them highlighting the lack of flying mounts in a “whole zone dedicated to world PvP”. Vehicle combat was part of it, but the zone was designed to create a place with a rule set attempting to foster world PvP.
I know this because I was legitimately excited for this and it was the only feature I was excited about for Wrath.
Blizzard couldn’t keep 40 man raids moving forward it just was feasible. They already were having issues with getting more people to be able to raid and even see raid endings, guilds were breaking apart because of poaching and just lack of participation.
Yes but it had nothing to do with them being like omg flying killed world pvp. As I said world pvp was all but dead before TBC even came out. They tried things like hellfire tower and such but it wasn’t getting any attention as people were still doing bgs as the form of pvp. So they decided to make a world type bg where you essentially get rewarded like you do in bgs but it was in the world and not in a confined instance. The was the main marketing of it that is was an outside world pvp zone with vehicle combat and at the end whoever controlled the zone had the raid to get more pve orientated people into mixing some pvp.
I’d keep 25 man raiding as it was. It would be cool to have 40 mans but all the bosses were designed for 25 man raids. Flying was a big part of BC so I would keep that as well.
The only changes I’d make are adding in dual spec and RBG’s
Pfft are you kidding me? I didn’t use exaggeration at all. The removal of attunements is a much much much bigger change than what I gave an example of. If anything I downplayed my example.
It’s not subjective, it’s objective. My point is correct and yours is wrong. They made this change 100% BECAUSE of wrath, no more discussion.
No it doesn’t lol. They straight up said they removed it in order to help players gear up for sunwell so they could see it. This is because the nature of wow being that once the expansion hits, you likely aren’t going to experience it. With a legacy server this is a nonissue. You are justifying why they used it back then which is irrelevant, because this wouldn’t be limited to a timeframe where the content will be gone. So yeah, you’re objectively wrong.
You’re right there isn’t. You’re wrong. Period.
Im guessing we are talking about attunements. I don’t think they should have complete removed them but making them a bit simpler again like 40 mans was a must. These again were hurting guilds and raid teams as if you lost a player attuned you had to go back an reattune someone else losing progression time on raids and just suddenly falling behind the curve. I think the Kara attunement was a nice middle ground it was long an goddy like back in vanilla one were and it wasnt well insta enter.
But them making the decision to exclude flying mounts in a zone dedicated to world PvP is literally them admitting that is a factor.
It was dying, but it wasn’t dead. Did you play TBC? There was still plenty of world PvP happening, I spent most of the expansion in a guild that was dedicated to it. We worked around flying, but it was extremely clear that flying greatly encouraged avoiding world PvP.
Nagrand? HFP? Daily Hubs? IQD was huge for world PvP.
When people can’t escape, get out of combat and fly away to guaranteed safety it forces more fights. Playing a Druid in TBC literally felt like cheesing world PvP. Fly down, pew pew, heal heal, fly back away, repeat.
Flying diminished world PvP as did many other changes.
Authenticity is enough, because blizzard is the only one with the sanctioned product. Early on in the private server lifecycle, private servers used to be fun servers with goofy interactions and really really absurd experience rates (like 100x or every fresh character be max level). As time went on people shifted towards playing more “authentic” servers with comparable experience rates even going down to 1x. And since then and especially since nost the vast majority of servers are that now (yes cash shop options exist now to enable the easy play and fast leveling), yet most people don’t choose to use those things.
People crave authenticity and have been fine with rerolling a new character or on tbc/wrath once done with naxx. The mistake you and everyone are making is thinking that there needs to be anything beyond naxx when it’s been shown people are content with naxx being the end and progression being as blizzard laid out.
So what you’re saying is… BC servers shouldn’t have any BC elements and stay Vanilla?