Lisen, if your chosen covenant abilitiy is going to determine whether you are sat or not, then I’d already consider it a failed system.
Classes should feel complete and be competitive without the need of a borrowed power system. What I’m arguing about here is that if you do more than one type of content and play more than one role/spec, you are going to regret your decision at one point. This is what frustrates me.
If this really happens, then it’s even worse than Azerite.
There’s not really an “if” about it. Or more precisely, the “if” is if Blizzard doesn’t add a trivial way to change covenants. If they don’t do that, the balance hammers will inevitably descend, and people will be forced to swap covenants en masse. The higher up the “hardcore” tree you are, the more mandatory that swap becomes.
Really, I don’t see a way for this system to function effectively, regardless of whether you can trivially swap covenants. There’s too much power wrapped up within it at the moment. I agree with Extingra here, they really should just remove the power from it and make the choices either purely cosmetic/RP or purely utility.
I honestly don’t see how Blizzard has not learned their lesson. This is the same mistake as Azerite at the beginning of the expansion, but WORSE.
Blizzard’s surgical axe of balance is always going to be one the things I hate the most about the balance team.
Can’t wait to see we needing to get 9.1 or 9.2 and they “fix” the problem through giving us a letter of recommendation so we can change covenants.
As if that’d be their solution. More likely, they’ll add in a second rental power system instead. Like, you know, Essences. And then 9.3 will have a third one.
Blizzard doesn’t learn anymore. They repaint existing features and then stand there baffled when the same freakin’ problem crops up once again. Dev hubris has reached critical mass, they no longer care what players think or want. They are trying to design the “perfect system”, even if that results in the death of that system.
I think I remember reading somewhere that the dev team is doing this to “resurrect” the RPG feeling of the game in the sense that choices matter. It’s sad to say, but such a system doesn’t really work anymore by today’s standards in a competitive game. This might’ve worked back in Vanilla or TBC, but I don’t think it’s a good fit for today’s settings.
I also think it was said that they want to see where covenants take us, but might be open to the idea of making it easier to switch if it turns out to be they’re shooting their own foot (which is most likely going to happen). We can see it coming from a mile away, but they choose to keep their blindfolds on.
The problem is the mechanical systems in RPGs and player choice mattering have no direct correlation.
Yes, I can accept a help request from an npc that rewards me with something I wouldn’t receive if I ignored them, but I can get the same reward if I read 0 quest text, get carried through on a group while I peruse reddit, or just follow the steps on wowhead. Even character options barely matter. Any system that includes options where 1 choice is player power and the other is cosmetic or otherwise flavor related ends up not being a choice if that player power is significant.
We don’t affect the game world and THAT is why player choice doesn’t mean anything. Character customization choices without power parity are illusions of choice and/or noob traps. The ROLE in RPG for me is tank, and there are rarely any actual choices there.
I’m likely choosing Night Fae, for this reason:
My character is half-monster, compounded by rejection from her own kind. She feels the need for redemption, for cleansing, ever since the Legion was defeated. She has befriended a monk (my first main) to help her find this, to help achieve an inner peace. She’s hoping the Night Fae can further help her in this regard.
Think Bruce Banner or Ben Grimm. Similar deal, except that Vararei chose the monster inside her, to help her people, who then shunned her. -ouch -
I love tragic heroism.
Love the RP angle. My head-cannon for my Demon Hunter is similar.
My main will likely choose his or her covenant based on player power, but alts…ya, that’s likely to be other reasons. My warlock, for example, is 152% going Necrolords, because the cloth set plus the wings screams warlock.
How is it the same as Azerite in the beginning of BFA? Wouldn’t it be close to how legion artifacts worked and if I remember correctly most people actually liked Artifact Power for their weapon.
Corruption is like Legendaries. Covenants is like Azerite, in that it’s a rental power system having a defining influence on our gameplay, that Blizzard originally intended Azerite to be permanent, they have wildly spread balance amongst the options, and their balance is very likely to be just as spastic and unpredictable as it was for Azerite. If we’re effectively locked into covenants, or have to completely restart our progress when we switch (akin to resetting neck level to 0), this is going to tank hardcore.
Yea after artifacts for say Mages in legion, there is no way I see them balance this out. They are gonna nerf one people get mad and move after a big grind and then they tune one other and people get mad and feel like they should move again.
I really would not mind JUST the soulshape spell(the movement or utility they already said they might disable in pvp/competitve anyways) being the big difference and then reskinning the damage ones for each covenant.
They absolutely could do this, why can’t each Covenant have a themed spear?
I agree with the choice part. I hate the design where there’s a correct response to everything, so in practicality, there’s really no choice. You just change based on what’s predetermined to be the best for the current situation.
I wish more people could play by taking in stride whatever benefits or limitations that come at them and working around them.
Ya, but that doesn’t work in progression raiding, where min-maxing is not only expected, it’s both assumed and balanced around. If you’re not min-maxing, you’re just holding your group back. Why pick a covenant ability that gives you 100% AP every 3 minutes when you can pick one that gives you 400% every minute plus an AoE 400% every 4 minutes?
Thats just a downside you gotta deal with sadly to say. Not everyone raids mythic or does 20+ keys where i understand your point, were being able to freely chose is the what "YOU’ want. But top end players shouldnt be the end all be all deciders of whats good to change for everyone. I want what i earn whether it be something like mage tower, elite pvp set, covenant armor, exclusive talents, mounts, achievements and such to matter and not something everyone can get else it just has no meaning or want to achieve.
No, but at the same time, Blizzard shouldn’t make systems that are specifically punishing to those min-maxers either. They’ve sold this covenant system as a “choice”, but with the abilities as they are, there’s zero choice for anyone that actually cares about their performance. And that applies even in heroic and lower keys. Do you really think your raid is going to want to carry you because took an ability that does 120% AP once per minute (Elysian Decree, Kyrian) over an ability that does 400% once per minute and in an AoE once every 4 minutes (Sinful Brand, Venthyr), simply because you liked the transmog or mount of the other one? Even in heroic, that DPS is non-negligible.
If you judge the worth of something by how many other people are deprived of its ownership, you’re a remarkably shallow individual. The worth of something is in earning it, not it the exclusivity of earning it.
Depends on the active ability really doesn it… correct me if I am wrong necro isnt implemented yet?
It isn’t. However, I’m largely commenting on the ones we’ve seen. Unless the necro ability is amazeballs, Sinful Brand is basically going to be required unless you just get no f’s about your DPS output.
Hopefully soul binds make up the difference but who knows.