Ideas to fix epic bgs

PVP Battlegrounds
1

Reposting because I accidentally put this in WPVP instead of here

Historically I’ve always loved epic bgs, and it makes me sad to see them in their current state. I find it a really enjoyable game mode, and think other people would like them too with some minor fixes, lmk if you have any other ideas:

Problems:

  • allegedly guilds have found ways to bypass premade party limits to get all 40 players queuing together
  • frequent leavers and backfill
  • leavers leaving too early, teams remaining imbalanced rest of game afterwards
  • people think first fight determines the game, and are making it true by leaving in such large numbers because they believe it
  • AFKers

Ideas:

  • Fix queue issues letting people make the 40-player premades
  • Harsher penalty for leaving <2 minutes in (so people stop leaving after first fight)
  • Harsher deserter penalties in general
  • Address AFKers and/or people typing instead of playing by penalizing lack of movement like in OW
  • Incentive to stay in game as a backfill, maybe small honor cache?

Out there ideas:

  • Go back to PVP zones in the world and just have them scale to current expansion (Wintergrasp, Ashran, etc.)
  • Some sort of condescending tutorial to players know how to play epic bgs. Lots of players seem to complain about losing while winning and vice versa, to the point I’m unsure if they understand what’s happening

I’m sure people who’ve played longer or more seriously than me have plenty of input as well- lots of people in-game are talking about just removing epic bgs entirely, especially Wintergrasp, but these game modes were perfectly fine for years and it would be really sad to remove them just because people are throwing.

3 Likes
2

There is only ONE way to fix epics bgs. Remove the ability for people to Que synch. There is nothing else that needs to be done. You can close this thread down now

6 Likes
3

This is a horrible idea.
You do that and your epics will be ghost towns. People aint gonna sit and waste 40 mins while a premade farms them. WOW … JUST WOW

WHats needed is to perma ban anyone caught using an add on to skirt the que limits. No more premades in epics. PERMA BAN NO MERCY … Stop cheating.

You wanna fix epics?
Make it to where ther eisnt just 1 win condition.
Hangar
SR
ROC.

Fix that crap

6 Likes
4

Just to touch on this, there’s nothing allegedly about it. It’s what is happening and it’s not just guilds it’s communities.

Making normal and epic battlegrounds cross faction and adding in role balancing between the teams would go a long ways to cutting down on premades while just making better matches overall.
And solve a lot of other problems.

2 Likes
5

An idea >> make vehicles repairable by Engineers only. Some healers are incredibly strong “healing” vehicles (prevokers, holy & disc priests in particular). Other heals can’t “heal” them. Super bizarre design or lack thereof.

Another thought would be >> make the new TWW item “Web Pull” apply to players and pets only. People (usually the type you only ever see in premades) have been using them to pull vehicles (ie the Siege Engine) into unescapable areas (rocky spots).

2 Likes
6

We really shouldn’t make a battleground reliant on having a specific class, spec, or profession to do a BG mechanic.
Would rather see repair kits at the workshop players could pick up and use on a vehicle or something like that.

3 Likes
7

When you say this, do you mean allow raids to queue? If so, how would you matchmake them? I’m assuming you don’t want raids vs. solos/pugs/uncoordinated teams?

Harsher penalties/punishments would not work unless you want queues to get longer because more people will choose to not queue. I also don’t get why not just play all the other modes if people want honor. Fishing epic BGs for a carried win is not really a good way to get honor.

8

Not allegedly, they admit to doing it.

Don’t forget sync exploiters dodging each other leaving teams with way less players.

Clearly blizzard didn’t intend epics for large, organized groups, there is other stuff they do if they want organized group content. But we know they aren’t doing it for fair fights.

Just straight up no, it’s unrated content. Simply fix the rampant exploiting.

2 Likes
9

I think there should be a dedicated raid queue for epic battlegrounds. A full raid vs a full raid. No partial raids or random fill-ins or anything like that. Just a straight 40v40 queue mode.
This would allow for premade communities to get the premade vs premade games they always say are so fun, while leaving the 1-5 player epic battleground queue free of premades.

1 Like
10

This would be epic. If it was legit raid v raid that is something I would even like to be part of. Sadly, we won’t ever get that and even if we did, we know these “communities” wouldn’t do them lol

1 Like
11

If queue syncs were fixed tomorrow, I truly believe that a lot of you would be unpleasantly shocked at the state of epic BGs.

It wouldn’t be a one and done fix. Too many people quit, too many people AFK. Most players in BGs don’t even know what queue syncing is. People have learned to rationalize any behavior with, “The other team is so toxic that my toxic is not just justified, but the only sensible response.”

Roughly speaking, about 30% of Horde players leave any BG that doesn’t go the right way in the first 60 seconds.

I’m not counting people that leave later, when it’s an obvious premade. Or people that leave in the last few minutes because they’re being hard graveyard farmed.

I’m talking people that leave because they always leave any BG that ISN’T an easy win.

And if you’re only playing for the easy wins, how EXACTLY are you better than the queue syncers?

Because you’re a bigger pain for me than they are and certainly cause me to lose more.

12

Nobody would be unpleasantly shocked. Everyone knows how bad they are, we are simply pointing out that exploiters are making things much worse.

Care to provide where you got these numbers from?

Like sync exploiters dodging each other and afking out of losing games?

This is such a bad argument. Of course, there are people that leave if they know it’s not going to win, it’s happened sense bg’s where a thing, but it was never this bad.

This is just objectively false. You are playing the effects of a problem instead of the problem.

13

This isn’t about being better than anyone else. Players would still leave even if sync queueing didn’t exist, and that’s a problem that needs attention. But the reality is, sync queueing is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, reasons why people are leaving in the first place.

Fixing this isn’t a one-and-done solution. You start by addressing sync queueing, then follow through with what players have been suggesting for years, better role balancing, improved NPC health scaling, harsher penalties for leavers, map balance adjustments, and so on.

Sync queueing may not be the entire problem, but it’s a major one, and fixing it is the first real step toward improving the experience for everyone.

1 Like
14

You say that, but then you also seem to believe that people only quit because of queue syncing. This is incorrect.

Yeah, sure. Not super hard. Do a BG and any time we lose the opener, I track how many people leave. I’ll be transparent and say I normally cut it off after 1-2 minutes after the actual beginning of the BG and the average is rightttt around 15. Sometimes as low as 10 or 11 and I think the highest I’ve seen was 19.

I tracked it a couple of weeks ago for about 20 EBGs on a variety of Horde characters. This shouldn’t be a surprise. You can do it yourself, it’s actually pretty consistent.

If you’re doing something because a queue syncer does it, I again repeat the question, how are you any better?

And what argument? There’s no argument there. It’s a question. How is someone that sabotages a BG on my team (By leaving after the game started) better than someone who sabotages it on their team (By queue syncing)? You argue they’re only leaving because of the queue syncing, but that’s just blatantly false and I’d return the argument that queue syncing has only become so popular because Horde give up so quickly.

You have no idea how to use “Objectively”. You lack the data or experience to tell me how often I lose to a premade vs people ragequitting.

But I do know I’m proper sick of so many people leaving every BG and having to wait until the BG is repopulated by people who are already dispirited by having to backfill a BG to even begin trying to dig our way out of it.

Winning a WG from behind isn’t that hard.

Winning a WG from behind while waiting for 15 people to finish quitting and those 15 slots to fill back up makes it much harder.

I don’t disagree with your post, Neckro. My post was explicitly aimed at people who think that queue syncing is the ONLY problem. It’s not, it’s not even close and I’m not convinced, AT ALL, that it’s even the primary one.

Again, I’m not even sure that the majority of players know what queue syncing is. Yes, there are some real die hards PvPers in BGs, but the majority of people are just casuals.

The forum population is not the BG population and pretending it is isn’t helpful.

15

Where have I ever said people only quite because of sync exploiting? I have said it’s a major reason because it is.

That’s not just horde, it’s both sides. Also, sometimes it’s a sync exploit group afking out.

If you leave a game because of cheaters, is it your fault?

Again, I never argued that they are only leaving because of sync exploiting. I have been playing epics for years and years, and leaving was never this bad till sync exploiting became the norm.

Ironic. But no that is the proper use of the word. Just look at sync exploiters win rates. They win because of exploiting not because of “ragequitting”

Then fix what’s causing people to leave… not a hard concept.

It factual is though.

Again, blame the actual problem instead of what the problem is causing. If people stop playing a game because of cheaters, why are you attacking those quitting instead of the cheaters? Your logic is flawed.

You have no idea what people know or don’t know, you are simply making excuses at this point.

Nobody is pretending it is. But lots of people come here expressing the dislike of exploiters ruining the game. Majority of people have just quit.

16

I said it seems that way, because you often boil it down to, “Fix exploiting, problem solved, simple.”. My post is only saying that I think it’s more complicated than that.

Good to know. I don’t play Alliance and I’ve never seen anything in an EBG that made me think my team was actively queue syncing. But I also rarely see the Alliance do it.

Well, yes. In fact, you are. Let’s be clear, it’s cheating, but it’s pretty mild. We’re not facing aimbots or maphacks. They’re pretty regular players. They shouldn’t be doing it, but it’s very reasonable to expect a decent game against them and occasional wins. People leaving makes it harder. And, AGAIN, these people ragequit because they’re LOSING, not because of queue syncers.

I don’t even understand how you can say: “If you leave a game because of cheaters, is it your fault?” and then: “Again, I never argued that they are only leaving because of sync exploiting. I have been playing epics for years and years, and leaving was never this bad till sync exploiting became the norm.” You can’t use both arguments at the same time. Either I get to blame them for quitting because they’re losing, or I don’t because the other team is cheating. But it seems like you want me to accept everyone is leaving because there is a chance that sometimes someone is cheating. And no. I won’t do that.

That wasn’t the discussion. To clarify: I’m saying that people’s toxic mindset and constantly being ready to snap quit every BG, and then doing so, causes me more frustration and hassle in a BG than queue syncs do. You have no way of disproving this and the math makes no sense. If 10-15 people are quitting every EBG, they’re certainly causing as much of a disruption as running into cheaters every 5-10 games, at most.

Again, they’re not leaving because of the queue syncers. You can’t keep trying to have this both ways. You ARE saying it, while claiming you’re not. Read what you’re writing.

Yes, it’s harder to win from behind. It’s not hard. And it would be easier without quitters.

And they’re not quitting the game. I’d understand that. Really, I would. That’s super fair. But they’re not quitting the game. They’re continually queueing into round after round of BGs while waiting for decent players to carry them. They’re a problem, sorry.

What excuses? What are you even talking about? Why would I be making excuses? For WHAT, exactly? I’m not claiming I hate BGs, or that it’s unfair. There’s no excuses to be made. It’s hardly a secret that only a TINY fraction of the game use the forums or external resources for WoW. I don’t like queue syncers either. You’re attacking me and you don’t even know why, lol.

17

This isn’t allegedly, they do it and opening promote it.

Growing increasingly frustrating how easy people give up even when it’s not a premade. Back filling can be an issue especially certain times a day on Horde side.

Yep this an any time you don’t start well the other side is automatically a premade.

This would kill the bracket completely, giving even more power to premade communities. Not a good idea.

I like it.

Could work.

Ya I have takled about this before. Quite honestly the game should tell you if you are back filling. All though I see the issues with that too. Just awful getting put in a game only for it to end 1 minute later. But I like the idea of rewarding back fillers as long as they stay.

This could be fun.

Even in the starting zone they could use comp stomp as an intro to PvP/BGs like they have the follower dungeon. Lots of things they could do here.

18

Really?

Then you have your priority skewed.

You clearly either aren’t understanding what you are reading, or you are being willfully ignorant. It’s clearly you just want to blame everyone else for the problem instead of those causing it. I’m not going to waste my time trying to have a conversation with you when you are being willfully dishonest.

19

I do think there should be massive bonuses to backfilling. Even a flat honor boost. Right now, it’s the worst situation to be in. You get basically a 100% loss, but you’re already far enough into the game that most people can’t rationalize quitting at all.

Kind of rough all around. A flat 100-200 honor just for entering would help. Any real boost to rewards would be nice.

I also wish PvP gave valorstone in some sort of reasonable amounts. Or rep. Or something.

20

It’s multiple things. Premades are only one part of it. There’s also the map designs themselves that make it so the first fight is the most important on 3 of the 4 maps, so many people will leave if their team loses that fight because they know if they stay it’s almost a guaranteed loss. Yes comebacks can still happen, but they are rare (and NOT just because people leave).

Fix the premades by making them cross faction.
Fix the role imbalances by balancing the roles so each team has an equal number of tanks and healers.
Fix the maps so there’s more viable strategies to victory and a team who is behind could make smart plays to turn the tide.
Make the deserter penalty account wide, but I don’t think the time should be increased. Make it stacking though so frequent leavers will find themselves getting longer and longer penalties if they leave too many of their last X games played or something like that. Keep it lax enough that it would only really penalize the chronic leavers.

3 Likes