Idea: Frost's Tier 1 Talent Tree should be just for Water Ele

Classes Mage
#1

Frost’s Water Elemental is an absolute joke of a minion compared to what other classes and specs get, and I feel this talent tree can address this problem and make it a more interactive minion to play with, while at the same time covering some of Frost’s weak points.

My ideas for revamping this talent tree are as follows:

  1. Bone Chilling - is now an active spell your Water Elemental learns.
    The water Elemental blasts the mage with a surge of power that increases their spell power by 5% and an additional 1% per Fingers of Frost or Brain Freeze the mage has. Lasts 10 seconds. Additionally, Freeze now has 2 charges.

Justification > Shifting this passive 5% talent to an active that the Water Elemental can learn gives it more interaction with the mage and allows Frost periodic bursts of anywhere between 5-8% int, depending on how many procs they are holding at the moment this spell is used. Freeze having 2 charges will allow Frost more Shatter setups/potential. Haven’t worked out a reasonable cooldown.

  1. Lonely Winter
    Remains as is.

Justification > Frost should still be allowed to forego the need for a Water Elemental if needed.

  1. Ice Nova: Replace with Icy Polyphony
    For the duration of Icy Veins, the Water Elemental replicates a weaker version of most of the mage’s spells onto its current target.

Justification > This option allows Frost to deal with something it has no answer for: spread out targets/AoE. The tradeoff being that Frost has to micro its minion better and make it focus another target. Scales well with Icy Veins and makes it a potentially better DPS cooldown.

The elemental would essentially cast any damaging spell the mage casts except spells that require targeting (eg: Blizzard) and trinkets, but obviously at a lower % than what the mage hits for. Interaction with certain legos would also have to be prohibited or it might be too op in some cases.

2 Likes
#2

I’d rather see the elemental become more of a shaman-like CD. It’s always been kind of bad as a normal pet.

11 Likes
#3

That would be cool but I just wish they would get rid of Lonely Winter and just buff our pet damage so we don’t have to pick. The elemental should feel powerful, having that pet nova out all the time is so nice.

#4

I mean that’s what it was in Warcraft 3.

#5

WTB deep freeze.

2 Likes
#6

It actually used to be that way. I don’t remember what expansion made it permanent but it used to be a strong cd.

1 Like
#7

I rather blizz get rid of the water elemental,was tired of it aggroing mobs not marked,not following at times and another assorted glitches.

2 Likes
#8

It just needs to go back to a cd so that our base spells can actually hit for decent damage. We don’t need things like ice nova, ray of frost, glacial spike, ebon bolt. Frostbolt and Ice lance need to hit harder and be a core part of the spec rather than having these other powers.

#9

Thats how it was until cata or mop i forget which

#10

I don’t mind those spells (though IN is a bit meh).
Ray is kind fun to use, even if it is unreliable and does poor damage. I don’t think it should be on that talent row though, because RoF/GS/IV just don’t mesh with each other and one will always be a much stronger option.
GS itself isn’t a bad spell, but again I’d like it not to be tied to BF procs. Having it be auto-crit and just pump a bit more damage (even give it the ability to apply 1 stack of winter’s chill) would go a long way to making it a much more enjoyable spell to use without relying on RNG.
Ebonbolt I feel should just be baseline rather than a talent. In Legion it hit reasonably hard, and having the BF proc was handy - though back then you’d just use it immediately after EB to get the crit, so the option there would be to either lower its CD and still give a BF or up its damage but grant IL proc instead.

But yeah, I’d like Water Ele to return to a cooldown. Have it be on a 1.5m cd to give Frost something outside of IV, or just straight up tie it into IV to make that cooldown actually decent. The only time I somewhat enjoyed using WE was during WoD when it had Water Jet to force 2 FoF procs.

1 Like
#11

God no, remove the elemental completely and give us a decent row of talents to compensate.

3 Likes
#12

The problem with having all of those spells is that it makes our base spells do less damage. Frostbolt and Ice Lance were once the core of the spec. Now you just spam FB until you get procs so that Ice Lance can do dmg. Too many powers makes the base of the spec weaker to compensate. I miss using shatters on FB for big damage.

#13

It was a big, tanky pet in BC amd WotLK. Between slows, kiting, and water elemental tanking I could solo many group quests. I was bummed to hop on the old mage and find out the water elemental was basically useless. That talent tier really does need to be revisited. Lonely Winter feels mandatory.

#14

I haven’t used my ele a single time this entire expac and I’ve been frost the whole time. The frost talent tree needs a complete overhaul, since it has talents that no one has used in 3 expacs. Either make an ele a regular pet for all 3 specs, or get rid of it altogether. I miss having a spell base with a talent tree that buffs your base abilities

1 Like
#15

I do find this to be an extremely valid point. The talent tree is basically too narrow and certain talents absolutely do not belong there.

I think it’d be great if some of the talents were baseline and the talent would actually upgrade it in some way. Like Freezing Rain baseline and the talent would increase Blizzard’s AoE or something.

1 Like
#16

I agree but the worst tier that needs real treatment is the Glacial Insulation tier.

#17

People actually use glacial insulation against marksman hunter teams. Even at high rating. Saw venruki running it the other day against a team.

#18

I’d be okay with the Water Elemental being a CD. But I HATE playing as Frost and having it as a pet. Lonely Winter talent is such a nice option.

1 Like
#19

IMO, we should have

  1. Lonely Winter
  2. Talent that buffs water elemental slightly
  3. Talent that buffs water elemental a lot, but it only appears during Icy Veins.
#20

Alternatively it turns WE into a CD reminiscent of TBC/WoTLK elemental.