Alright.
Hypothetical here.
Say it was the Alliance who made the first strike (like Blizzard suggested before everything went down).
Would the Horde be in the right to retaliate in destroying a few of your cities and killing tens of thousands of your civilians, all simply because they didn’t sell out your leaders?
Or would you debate as I am debating?
Assuming the events here played out the same? Of course not. Blowing up a city you already evacuated is a pretty weak justification to torch a city full of people.
Maybe I agree with you a little, slaughtering civilians is not justice(it still disgusts me they approve of genocide as a tactic, don’t get me wrong). The Horde standing army and leadership on the other hand…
Argus disagrees. A couple Alliance heroes and a few nameless mooks of an Alliance race zerg rushed the Legion’s HQ, and ended them as a major threat. While the Horde… baked pastries? That were subsequently stolen by the local wildlife?
Old Gods have neither the infinite number of troops, nor do those troops have infinite respawns. It’s why the “work together” message of Nazjatar fall flat. Old Gods (and most other threats outside the Void Lords themselves) are paltry, now. At least… if the Horde could stop waging a war of extermination against the Alliance, and let the heroes do their work.
I guess you’re right.
But, like, I just feel the Horde doesn’t need mass murder committed upon them to justify their previous unjustifiable mass murder, they need something that puts us back on morally stable ground.
And I just think it’s really hard to do that with Sylvanas in charge, who has essentially branded nearly every Horde racial leader with a shred of virtue as traitors.
At the very least their army could use a severe beating in ashenvale to know to stay out for good… As a primary Night Elf player, I don’t wanna genocide any races… just want the Horde hit hard on the Nose so they don’t mess with the Night elves again.
But I think after this expac we won’t be seeing either faction trying to invade the other… probably just a few squabbles here and there on new territory.
In all honestly. I want to see an end to the Horde and the Alliance, and the creation of two brand new factions. Where any player can join either faction based on a philosophical choice.
Meh, I mean yeah it would be cool to roll a human and then join horde if you wanted. But as far as what Blizz has built up for animosity between the factions is going to be a problem. I could see the core vanilla races being faction locked but the others not so much.
Or the ability to cross faction pve and crate guilds would be more likely.
We’ve been fighting wars that effect things on a cosmic scale. I think new factions should mirror than in some way.
No, not a Light and Void thing. But two new factions that want the same thing, but just disagree on how to go about doing it.
PvP could be about hold outs who harbor grudges from the old factions. And a player could pick a side with each BG. So, in reality you could have two players who each joined the same new faction but hate each other based on past actions of their former factions.
Because I am just tired of this Horde/Alliance dominated story, it’s old and time for a change.
Agreed, the new blizz doesn’t seem to know how to handle it correctly. Not saying I would have done any better. But the whole faction war since Cata has been so contrived and forced.
They can’t even get the Night elves, or orcs right… when all they had to do was Carry their torch from wc3.
I think the new factions should have the exact same goals. They just differ in how they get there. One is an “end justify the means” faction. Who would have no problem with blowing up and entire zone to destroy an Old God.
While the other would want to find a way that didn’t destroy everything but still killed the Old God.
Call the factions whatever you want, the names are irrelevant, what matters is the philosophy behind each.
I think what you describe is what they were going for with the Pandaren and their different philosophies. I have always thought of the Horde and the Alliance more like Chaos and Order rather than Good and Evil. The Horde in broad strokes being akin to the barbarian tribes surrounding the Roman Empire - prizing their independence and freedom from the rule of Rome, while the Alliance in broad terms is like the Roman Empire - a civilized state composed of a variety of peoples who want to preserve and protect the benefits of civilization for their citizens.
So, basically the Tushui and Huojin.
Aysa and Ji:
That’s exactly what I was going to say. I think the Pandaren approach to choosing your faction is a best route if you have to have factions be a thing.
Well that’s the problem with this whole narrative, the Horde already got punched in the nose with SoO. So if the Horde was a face, another punch would make it look like Red Skull or Skelator, which the Horde can hardly afford right now. It needs time to rebuild and re-establish itself as a force for good.
Problem is, that’s what it deserves right now for going on another foolish murder crusade in pursuit of world domination.
For the most part SoO was a rebellion from within that the alliance offered aid to. I do understand that it’s still fresh in people’s minds, and it does feel like we are going to follow that same story… even as an alliance player I think it sucks.
Something has to be done for the Kaldorei… even if it’s not a vengeance thing. Their lands could be returned and a truce or pact made to never tread on those grounds unless other wise provoked. Maybe some assistance from the Tauren to help restore the land.
Yeah, but even so, the Alliance definitely took advantage of the infighting to reduce their own casualties while allowing the Horde to weaken itself, putting the Alliance in a position of power over them.
Let’s face it; absolutely NOTHING the Horde can or would do can atone for the genocide of the Night elven people.
Their lands can be returned, but Teldrassil is still destroyed.
The Tauren can help restore the land, but the people in Teldrassil were still murdered.
There is not plausible solution that can both satisfy the Night Elves while also leaving the Horde intact. Either the writers give Night Elves the finger, and allow the Horde to continue existing or the writers give the Horde another finger, and put them in a position of weakness and inferiority to the Alliance again.
So, WoW ends? Not seeing the downside here.
See, but thats the thing and a major problem with the story, the alliance has already hit the horde on the nose pretty hard, several times in bfa. Yet, yet most people still dont feel like justice and or victories have been had.
Thats the huge problem with starting this expansion, how do you give the alliance enough justice? How do you give the horde enough redemption? You just cant really.
I can see that point and yes we have gotten the Horde pretty good, there is no denying that. But why has Blizzard seemingly made them pretty meaningless victories? The biggest upshot is the destruction of the Zandalari fleet. But with the death of Rastakan you guys got an arguably more competent leader.
Battle for Lordaeron was arguably a bigger loss for alliance than horde, if not for Jaina we would have lost all major leaders in one wrong move.
We both have decimated fleets from nazjatar. Iam thinking the N’zoth scheming to make both factions so weak they can’t fight in the end is probably right.
But if Sylvanas is supposedly immune to old god corruption and such… why has she so easily played into their hands?
Because I think something else is also going on.
We’ve got a LOT of shadowy figures working behind the scenes right now. All with their own agendas.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if we found out that somehow Teldrassil was just beginning to be corrupted by an Old God, and when Sylvanas looked into her eyes she saw it. Burning Teldrassil never made any sense to me from Sylvanas’ view point. She thinks tactically and long term, something else besides the “death of hope” would make her give up a tactical advantage like Teldrassil.
Don’t get me wrong, I can totally see her destroying an entire city, but only if it was part of the plan, not out of the blue like this happened.