I am so used to Jaina moving between angry at the horde to forgiving them I could deal with it again. Maybe her whole forgiving the Horde could have been an act to throw them off.
A change of pace will be that we will not kill what is good in the Horde…But nor will we save them either.
Yes, i kinda understand what they tried to do
Baine gives derek (good faith) jaina returns the favor to save him and in the way thrall and saurfang helped her to do it and the fact that n’zoth is now free while we keep killing each other.
But… the way how they have been handling it was poor. because baine giving derek back doesn’t erase what the horde did.
That would be honestly the best thing that could happen, that she was acting her whole scene with thrall only to reveal her true plan later, it was just an act to make them kill each other while the alliance spends less resources and soldiers to do it.
and blizzard don’t even have to activate her “angry move” just a calculated mastermove.
but sadly, expecting too much from these writters has been proven to be… a mistake
Honestly if you hit rid of thrall and had the alliance teleport out mod fight it would be good to me i just have a nostalgic attachment to green jesus
Opposed to a typical blue poster zealot like yourself? Where’d you come from, the Scarlet Crusade? lol
{Horde child offers you icecream with an innocent smile} “NO. YOUR EVIL.” {Kills Horde child} - Literally how I depict you.
You hold no forgiveness, or mindset that others can be different from the whole - That’s where racism derives from. You hold onto hatred and would see a people destroyed because of it. To me, you’re the embodiment of evil and savagery.
Guess by those standards every single Nightelf in that tree deserved to burn then. Considering their empire joined the Legion 10,000 years ago.
If you didn’t give her magic fruit, the Horde - most likely a Blood elf would had. Lorewise, probably did. 
One could also have the Hordies go 'Lightforged are guilty by association. We would not have upgraded their magical-flying-inter-dimensional-spaceship if they were going to stab us in the back as soon as we turned our backs on them." given they were a neutral race merely opposed to the Legion and had not really any part with Azeroth affairs.
It goes both ways, so if you’re going to damn Thalyssra by that notion then Lightforged are just as guilty and deserve the exact punishment you’d see fit to apply to her. Otherwise you’re a hypocrite; however you’d like to paint or justify it it’s as simple as that.
Now as for the rest of those book-burning bonfire loving psychos, they need a good ole wake up call. I say we teach the Orcs a lesson first because as a race they haven’t had a good-loss in a long while and clearly forgot why they were ‘ReDeEmiNg’ themselves in Durotar the first place …
Meanwhile in Durotar:
Mr Fug: “Mr.Zug, Why were we here again?”
Mr.Zug: “Uh? Me no know Mr.Fug, I think world domination and to kill Alliance like old days with Mr.Gan.”
Well if we blew up the spires of Thunderbluff and then used the Focussing Iris to flood Orgrimmar as planned, then I’d like to see us negotiate about forgiveness.
Not specifically that but … The Alliance need to do something that’s “Whoa, that’s intense.” to ‘Morally Grey’ out the scales.
If all Night Elves saw what Azshara did.
Stood with her and the burning legion UNTIL some other force made them lose again and again until it was no longer convenient and switch sides I would agree with you.
But thats not what happened.
What happened was NEs learn of the burning legion and fight to stop them. Having no clue where Azshara stood among the highborne.
Until they find out and oppose her as well and defeat her.
See this is not how the Horde operates. The Horde willingly and cheerfully participates with your Azshara and Burning Legion example. Its only when we defeat them several times do they finally switch sides and pretend to be the good guys.
So yes I would destroy whatever orc offering me their poison. I don’t trust them.
That’s a bit extreme.
I’d say 80% of the continent and their cities being flooded makes it pretty damn convenient. Pretty much what happened.
But that’s where you’re wrong. There’s a rebellion, fighting to stop the wrong ideals within the Horde.
I don’t really recall the Horde primarily sizing with Azshara on a direct scale?
As for the Legion that was the Orcs only. - I mean you could argue that most of the orcs are the largest part of the problem within the Horde, and you wouldn’t necessarily be wrong, from what we’ve seen - but you seem to hold shear bitter hatred against all of the races within the Horde.
There’s been dialog throughout the Horde, where there’s particular NPCs showing regret or remorse over what happened to the Nightelves or what the Horde currently is.
Its not extreme when Horde does it? Why does the Horde constantly get a pass?
Maybe you are unfamiliar with the lore but the Sundering happens after the night elves fully fight the Legion. In fact, it was pretty much the finale to the war.
Oh? So why did the Horde stand together with Sylvanas? Why did the Horde stand together with Garrosh?
Why is it any time the Horde ‘rebels’ against evil its because the Warchief moves against their own people?
No madam. The Horde does not care and never has. They have no moral conscious for anyone except themselves. How many times has Saurfang or Baine brought up Teldrassil? How many times has Thrall apologized or mentioned how monstrous it was?
Never. Not even once. In every piece of dialogue all they could speak about was the Horde and its own members. Nothing else.
Meanwhile on the Alliance I hear more about the value of Zandalari and Horde lives and innocents than I do Night Elves.
That’s the difference between both of our factions. How many times have you spoken with Baine and he has lamented what happened at Teldrassil?
Never.
That’s the difference between both of our factions.
Lies. Or at least lies you tell yourself. If they are no lie then put it here for all to see.
I am sick and tired of these red posters pushing this fantastical idea of a good moral Horde. It never existed and never will because that’s just not how Blizzard created them. That’s your own interpretation and ideas.
Yeah. Really, only one side completed those quests. And the recruit quests has the Horde people being addressed as champion. Seems likely to me that only the Horde quests are canonical for Suramar.
Friend if they ever wrote Alliance characters like Malfurion and Tyrande the way they were supposed to, the only thing which would be horde is a random patch of dirt in Durotar.
Exactly. I’m 99% sure the Horde champions have the canon clear of Nighthold while the Alliance most likely got the canon clear of Emerald Dream with Malfurion (probably at the same time).
No, it’s BS, and we’re not denying it.
Some are embracing Sylvanas and being evil, while some like me denounce Sylvanas and her evil. There’s not alot else we can do about it other than hope the writers figure out what they want the Horde to be.
Because It IS.
I don’t play Horde to be a mass murderering terrorist organization, I want to play as races that are generally perceived as evil, but defy those expectations with acts of honor and virtue.
It’s not our fault the Horde is being written as genocidal warmongers again.
You mean Steve Danuser, the LEAD NARRATIVE DESIGNER? Because, we mean Steve Danuser, the LEAD NARRATIVE DESIGNER, who very much has a say in what direction the story goes in.
Horde posters don’t do that, they likely tell you that the dress from 2015 is blue and black while you think it’s white and gold.
For awhile, nobody really knew for sure what color that dress really was.
It was later confirmed to be black and blue.
The Horde did not CHOOSE to stand with her, at all. In fact, she was THRUST upon us. Nobody clamored for her to be Warchief, she was shoved down our throats by the writers as setup for this exact narrative. No other Horde leader would even think of doing the things she’s done, no other Horde leader was going to start a war with the Alliance, so who better to elect as Warchief than literally the only major character who still maintains an active grudge with the Alliance.
Contrary to the narrative, Sylvanas becoming Warchief was neither natural progression for the story or the character, it was simply to lay the groundwork for BfA. For if someone else was elected the supreme leader of their faction, there would be no faction war.
Not Tyrande
Not Turalyon
Not Genn
Not Jaina
Not Saurfang
Not Lor’themar
And especially not Baine
Absolutely NO ONE, other than Sylvanas has anything to gain out of starting a faction war. She’s a narrative device, not so subtlety used by the NARRATIVE DESIGNER to design this dog poop narrative.
Once again don’t presume to tell us, people who actively play the faction, that you know more about it than we do. Im not denying the crimes currently being committed by the faction, but Im sure as hell denying that the whole faction is just flat out evil just because most of our leaders are written as incompetent boobs who allow the evil to fester for too long, because that’s just not the case.
No I dont mean that Steve.
I mean a fictional steve, bob or whatever.
I never call out real life individuals.
Please retract that statement.
I made a joke with a modern name in Wow so it would sound ridiculous.
There is no supposed to. They made the characters and they follow whatever the writers say. No depiction is necessarily more true.
As much as they are lambasted, if we are talking writer intent, the devs are the ones who have insisted Azeroth is a world of grey. And that as far as recent interviews, this expansion isn’t about just being meme evil dudes.
lol so the alliance has to deal with these questions and not the horde? The horde started this war, this question should be directed at them and they’ve failed it outright.
It isn’t on the alliance to clean up the horde’s mess. They made their own bed.
And one more bit on point 2: Let’s say the alliance helps the horde take out N’zoth. The horde has now proven that most of its citizens as a collective support the idea of wiping out alliance races as peoples (as of Teldrassil). Even IF the alliance helps the horde save the planet they won’t be helping both factions survive. They’ll be cleaning up the planet for the horde as the moment N’zoth is gone the horde’ll finish purging alliance once and for all. This is both supported by the horde’s history and its current fanatical support of Sylvanas.
Tl;Dr: Not even the threat of absolute death should be enough to get the alliance to work with the horde because the horde IS the alliance’s absolute death.
That part, I’m going to have to correct you on. Look I’m all for going on a vengeance spree and assaulting Orgrimmar in the night, and leaving the Horde crippled; but playing out through their storyline (Gotta know your enemies right?) there’s various NPCs you come accross that have dialog advising such.
For instance there’s an Orc Child in Valley of Wisdom who talks about how he feels bad for the Nightelves who lost their home, and what’s to become of the Horde - Kid kinda ‘calls them out’ on basically removing their home when the Orcs had their own home (Draenor to Outland) lost. Arcanist Valtrois is also horrified at the Horde’s actions and compares them to the Legion. There’s various other NPCs throughout the Horde that have doubt in it - and the actions that have been taken.
I wouldn’t deem them as ALL evil, but they definitely need major reforming… Like, a Phoenix kind of reforming - Burn the Horde and let it be reborn from the ashes. See how they like it.
Like I stated earlier:
Personally: I want to see the Nightelves apply a devastation - that makes the denizens of Orgimmar widen it’s eyes in horror and awe.
Ultimately: An Equilibrium of sorts is what I’d like to see.
Having the Horde go from Warchief to Warchief, must be frustrating for them; but having the Alliance give them a noogie then go “Naaaw, just don’t doit again k?” is getting real old and facepalmy.
Dude I have had this debate too many times and frankly I am tired of constantly going over the same points.
Not a single person here has ever given me actual proof of Horde’s remorse or any accountability.
All its players have done is excuse Sylvanas, the Horde, try to rationalize it and so on. The disingenuous and ignorance of the lore and details is indicative of how little substance there is in this idea that the Horde is just as good as the Alliance when it comes to about caring about others, valuing life, peace and morality.
The Horde simply doesn’t.
There is no reforming them.
There is only excusing them and justifying them.
You got Horde players blaming Tyrande for not evacuating fast enough so its her fault they all died. You know. Blame the victim.
Blizzard knew its Horde playerbase and exactly what they wanted and gave it to them.
And now is the part where we forgive and turn the other cheek for the next Horde attack.
This has happened far too many times to be interpreted in any other way.
For once, the Alliance should take a major step towards cooperatively rehabilitating the situation. Something left by the wayside ever since the negligence of the Interment camps. To ensure incidents like Daelin’s attack, the Purge, or Genn’s attack don’t happen (because they are unnecessary). And that we don’t have people like Garrosh, Sylvanas, or Putress on the Horde (because of trying to remove the causes of them).
This would also require just a large, if not a larger, effort from the Horde. They’ll need to vet and weed out such problem childs. Problems like Garrosh who was docile until he got even the smallest bit of pride in him. Then he became a problem. They would also need to keep watch on all possible issues. I may give Garrosh crap but his efforts to watch the Horde was actually warranted but he did go overboard.
Sure. Cooperation requires more effort on both sides to be effective. And the Horde isn’t free from all failing because of their situation.