Hear that, Blizz? You’re trolling the players by giving them the option to play however they want.
People don’t even know what an option is. It means compromise. It means choosing one thing and perhaps missing out on something else. Decide what you value and play based on that. And let others do their own thing.
I speak only of my main. I honestly couldn’t give a damn about my alts. I care about clearing the content at its highest difficulty with my guild, as I have done this entire expansion. This buff compromises that experience. As it does for many. And for what? So people can burn through content faster and twittle their thumbs for the next 6 months waiting on Cata Classic? Sounds like so much fun.
This is 100% the problem. Because there is zero incentive to do so, the majority will take the path of least resistance in front of them. And honestly its that terrible mentality that is the issue.
That’s not a valid answer to the problem. Stop saying it is.
I’ve gone through this entire expansion with my guild. There is no joining another. Its either we see it through, or I’m done. if you actually had the ability to make friends and relationships in your guilds, you might understand that.
that would probably be a better incentive than even more loot give them some douchey title like Deathslayer or some crap
It should be Buffslayer. 
The Buffless.
lol
not being narrow minded, just putting into clear words what you guys are saying.
It absolutely is an answer. If your views dont align then find a new guild if you really care about this thing.
Thats not how that works. The incentive would be in right now, so if anything they would take loot away from buffed runs. You cant tell people that have been doing unbuffed runs since the 12th of October that if they would have waited more gear would have dropped.
Its the last raid of the expansion anyways but you guys are showing your “me me me” characteristics. Its the end of the expansion, just go have fun. Go turn your buff off to compete on WCL or whatever.
That would be in game right now because people have been doing it without a buff already.
These people have plenty of incentives to do it without the buff, but since it doesnt come with a “here is a free shadowmourne” attached they wont do it. They are out for gear, thats all they care about and all they have ever cared about.
1 There isnt a problem.
2. Its a valid answer.
3. TURN OFF THE BUFF
People who do not want the buff can remove it.
Those who want the buff cannot just apply it without Blizzard doing so.
By adding the buff into the game, both sides can get what they want.
By restricting the buff in the game, only 1 side gets what they want.
It is a valid answer. If you’re really after the challenge, you still have that option.
However, you’re a liar. So is everyone else who against the buff. You don’t care about the challenge. You care about others killing bosses. You have a superiority complex.
Doing it without the buff grants ‘The Superior’ title so we know what a true badass is. 
My post and intention with asking for the buff to be delayed is not to gatekeep other players. I think it would be awesome if every guild in the world killed H LK at 0% and everyone got all the heroic loot they wanted. I personally enjoy progression raiding (as do many others), where you work to clear raids in their most difficult format with gear upgrades and practice being the only way to make content easier as the phase goes on. I view the ICC buff as something that trivializes the content (even at 5%) and removes all sense of accomplishment from killing H LK, and there are other people who feel the same.
The reason “just turn the buff off” isn’t a realistic solution is because the vast majority of guilds who have a reasonable chance of doing so with a few extra weeks without the buff are not made up solely of players who would want to turn the buff off. That’s why I said it’s a divisive issue (if that wasn’t already obvious enough from all of the forum posts). There are people in both camps in a lot of guilds. Even if players who want to kill H LK with no buff were willing to leave a guild they may have been playing with for years at this point, it would be incredibly difficult to either 1) find an existing guild that is capable of clearing 0% H LK and happens to be recruiting exactly the class/spec you are playing and would pick you over however many other applicants they’re getting, or 2) form an entirely new guild with no clearly established track record of success. The “just turn the buff off” crowd seems to think that this is such an easy and viable option, but it’s not. If it’s so easy, please, someone list five guilds right now who are a) going to continue to not use the buff once it comes out, b) are capable of killing 0% H LK, and c) are heavily recruiting a variety of classes/specs for immediate raid spots. The fact that no one will be able to do so doesn’t indicate that there aren’t a lot of people who don’t want the buff, it indicates that guilds will tend to take the path of least resistance when there is a divide, and using the buff is the path of least resistance. And if you think you can just form a brand new guild from players on the forums who have posted that they want to delay the buff, then you simply don’t understand the logistical difficulty of forming a high level raiding guild.
I do understand why there are a lot of players who want the buff. Reasons range from reducing the time requirement to clear the raid, making it easier to kill bosses and collect loot on both difficulties, and making damage/healing numbers bigger. Even if the buff didn’t go live until January as I proposed, if it dropped immediately on that date at 30%, you’d still have months of clearing ICC with the full buff before the Cata pre-patch. It’d be significantly more time than you had to clear SWP in its post-nerf state. You’d get months of what you want. For people like me, once the buff goes live, the version of ICC we want is gone, because as stated above, it will be borderline impossible to find a high level raid group who won’t be using the buff. Count up the number of weeks that each side got the version of ICC that they wanted, and the number of weeks with the buff, even if it was delayed until January, would be significantly higher. I’m not arguing that we shouldn’t get the buff at all, I’m arguing for a more even split of time between the two versions of ICC (pre-buff and post-buff), and one that is more consistent with how nerfs have been handled thus far in classic.
That’s a big wall of text that’ll have 0 impact on the way the buff is happening, you should get over it.
They still can if they wanted to.
No novel-length post is going to change the fact they can just not use the buff. Saying ‘the other 24 people might not want to’ is just a cop-out. Have a guild vote and go with the majority. Whatever. Figure it out. The point is the option is still there.
Then the guild doesnt want to do it. Either they turn the buff off or they dont. The ball is in their court.
i care about the game being fun tbh and not just ICC every patch would have been worse if they nerfed the content remember SSC? a huge chunk of players wanted it nerfed like a month or two into the patch. my guild is pretty average it’s not like we’re hardcore
Then turn off the buff if you think having the buff isnt fun. Simple, your problem is solved.
i cant control my guild, and yeah imagine if blizz cowed back in TBC and made a thing like ssc or tk or swp nerfed the struggle was what made those raid tiers fun. i think your argument should be the raid will still present some challenge even with the buff that’s what the hope should be not even you would want the final raid tier to just be free loot
Sure it is, people dont want to put in effort though, They would rather gatekeep.
Too bad. Cant control the rest of us either. The buff is coming Dec 5th.
We arent in TBC and I dont like Vanilla or TBC so I really dont care.
turn the buff off if you dont like it
So you never played Wrath before?
“uh you should just abandon the friends you have raided with for 3 years and find the 2 probably-unfun guilds on ur server that turn off the buff :^)” it’s not gatekeeping no one is stopping you from doing the raid and im not even saying the game should go my way, the buff was in original wrath after all but I think it’s fair to want the game to be fun we’re paying for it. not even the biggest buff fan would want the final raid tier in classic, I know cata is a thing but wrath is the end for a lot of people, to just be a cakewalk and maybe it will still be hard