For the record, I can to a degree see where pro-sharders are coming from, somewhat. The problem and the question that needs to be asked is "How is sharding going to deliver the 'authentic Vanilla experience warts and all' that they promised? Why were alternatives to sharding not publicly presented by Blizz? Why was sharding mentioned in such a way as to suggest it would be the first option to ensure server stability at launch? Will Blizzard take faction balance into account? how does Blizzard plan to implement sharding in such a way that does not harm the integrity of the community which is arguably the most important core aspect of Vanilla? How does Blizzard define 'starting zones'? How do we know and what historical data and track record can we refer to that Blizzard will keep to their word and only use sharding for starting zones in moderation for the duration of the launch surge beside their word alone?"
11/05/2018 03:46 PMPosted by SunjashiFor the record, I can to a degree see where pro-sharders are coming from, somewhat. The problem and the question that needs to be asked is "How is sharding going to deliver the 'authentic Vanilla experience warts and all' that they promised? Why were alternatives to sharding not publicly presented by Blizz? Why was sharding mentioned in such a way as to suggest it would be the first option to ensure server stability at launch? Will Blizzard take faction balance into account? how does Blizzard plan to implement sharding in such a way that does not harm the integrity of the community which is arguably the most important core aspect of Vanilla? How does Blizzard define 'starting zones'? How do we know and what historical data and track record can we refer to that Blizzard will keep to their word and only use sharding for starting zones in moderation for the duration of the launch surge beside their word alone?"
For the record i don't want sharding. If they need to do it to keep the servers stable......well....... there really isn't a counterpoint to that. Are we gonna say we want server crashes because they are authentic? Come on now.
While i will tease the militant no sharding people them losing their mind over this does serve to show blizzard how we would regard them using it.
For the "How do we know they will honor their word" we don't but you can't let that ruin the fact that the game we have wanted for over a decade is coming back.
You make a fair point, and I don't believe for a second even the most militant anti-sharders are necessarily asking for server crashes, but at the same time there are, I believe legitimate concerns about how this will affect the community aspect, I guess we'll have to wait until launch to see how this plays out.
After the initial demo launch I was very down. Lots of UI remnants and gameplay remnants left from backporting the Legion client. But they seem to know and this is still very much a WIP product.
I'm still on the train this demo was too early to be shown off and they were forced by the higher ups to scrap together what ever they had to sell virtual tickets.
I'm still on the train this demo was too early to be shown off and they were forced by the higher ups to scrap together what ever they had to sell virtual tickets.
This.11/05/2018 03:11 PMPosted by Ig<span class="truncated">...</span>
I think many of these folks have been fighting for classic for so long they don't know when they have won the battle. So they find any little problem they can to justify being bitter towards blizzard because after 10 years of it, it is the "normal" feeling.
Actually this is pretty accurate, a large majority of the "No Changers" are people who are getting what they want but they are too blinded by the trolls and ill informed screaming their heads off to realize it. Most people are sensible and realize the game will never be 100% exactly like Vanilla in every way but that you can still capture the feel of Vanilla enough to make it an absolutely amazing game again.
And actually making Classic 100% like vanilla would be a VERY bad thing. Vanilla featured tons of lag, server downtime, and overcrowded areas during launch events and holidays. This led to a downright frustrating experience compared to modern WoW.
Having Classic recreate as authentic a vanilla experience as possible, but without the technical issues is a good thing.
11/05/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Khalissaafter seeing how hard these guys have been trying to bring back the old WoW as much as possible given the technical limitations, I've decided I'm going to take a "glass half full" approach to any non-Vanilla like aspects of the game.
I dont mean this to be rude, but either your post is fake or you are someone who would gulp the koolaide and give your face a big long wipe on your arm and go " ahhhh".
11/05/2018 04:09 PMPosted by SunjashiYou make a fair point, and I don't believe for a second even the most militant anti-sharders are necessarily asking for server crashes, but at the same time there are, I believe legitimate concerns about how this will affect the community aspect, I guess we'll have to wait until launch to see how this plays out.
I will say this, I don't feel it will be damaging if it is launch only.
But I am fairly militant against it remaining afterwards.
I guess the best we can do is see how the launch plays out, hold them to their word if they insist on sharding, though there has to be another way, sharding surely can't be the only option.
11/05/2018 05:04 PMPosted by SunjashiI guess the best we can do is see how the launch plays out, hold them to their word if they insist on sharding, though there has to be another way, sharding surely can't be the only option.
No but it's their option that they decided to go with.
It's built into their infrastructure along with CRZ.
Sharding/CRZ is how they manage server population and stability.
It's a take it or leave it deal.
11/05/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Brockthorn11/05/2018 05:04 PMPosted by SunjashiI guess the best we can do is see how the launch plays out, hold them to their word if they insist on sharding, though there has to be another way, sharding surely can't be the only option.
No but it's their option that they decided to go with.
It's built into their infrastructure along with CRZ.
Sharding/CRZ is how they manage server population and stability.
It's a take it or leave it deal.
But does it have to be? Look, on paper, I can agree sharding might be a good idea as long as it's confined to the starting zones for the first week or so. I just can't bring myself to agree in practice because due to the precedent it could possibly set as it already seems to be a gateway to other changes like loot trading. I am concerned not just about how it will affect the community aspect, but also about the precedent it could set. I fear if we give them an inch on any change like this, Blizz will take a mile and implement other changes that could affect the core gameplay and mechanics of Vanilla. Surely, you can't blame me feeling concerned about this.
11/05/2018 05:39 PMPosted by Sunjashi11/05/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Brockthorn...
No but it's their option that they decided to go with.
It's built into their infrastructure along with CRZ.
Sharding/CRZ is how they manage server population and stability.
It's a take it or leave it deal.
But does it have to be? Look, on paper, I can agree sharding might be a good idea as long as it's confined to the starting zones for the first week or so. I just can't bring myself to agree in practice because due to the precedent it could possibly set as it already seems to be a gateway to other changes like loot trading. I am concerned not just about how it will affect the community aspect, but also about the precedent it could set. I fear if we give them an inch on any change like this, Blizz will take a mile and implement other changes that could affect the core gameplay and mechanics of Vanilla. Surely, you can't blame me feeling concerned about this.
It's understandable to be worried about it with the track record they have but it's the system they have for managing populations. They aren't going to create a new system just for classic.
They have gone out of their way to NOT use anything but the current tech. I guess i just don't worry about it because i don't believe anything can realistically be done about it.
11/05/2018 05:48 PMPosted by Dragtuslivz11/05/2018 05:39 PMPosted by Sunjashi...
But does it have to be? Look, on paper, I can agree sharding might be a good idea as long as it's confined to the starting zones for the first week or so. I just can't bring myself to agree in practice because due to the precedent it could possibly set as it already seems to be a gateway to other changes like loot trading. I am concerned not just about how it will affect the community aspect, but also about the precedent it could set. I fear if we give them an inch on any change like this, Blizz will take a mile and implement other changes that could affect the core gameplay and mechanics of Vanilla. Surely, you can't blame me feeling concerned about this.
It's understandable to be worried about it with the track record they have but it's the system they have for managing populations. They aren't going to create a new system just for classic.
They have gone out of their way to NOT use anything but the current tech. I guess i just don't worry about it because i don't believe anything can realistically be done about it.
I guess so, consider my recent more toned down and civil responses my apology for my earlier outbursts and overreactions. I just love this game so much, ya know? I want to see Classic succeed, I'm sure we can both agree on that. I can get very passionate about the things I care about, sometimes to a fault. There's people who just don't give a damn, and then there's people like who give too much of a damn for their own good, haha.
I just want to see Classic be the most authentic and faithful recreation of the game I love it can be. Tbh, I'm more against loot trading than I am against limited sharding at launch. I just don't want to see dangerous precedents set that could open the door to more extreme changes that could have an even greater effect on the core of Classic.
11/05/2018 03:33 PMPosted by PossessedI was doubtful for a long time, then I watched the video of the Blizzcon discussion. Now I'm completely optimistic.
The graphics used to explain how the old terrain code couldn't be read by the new software was genius. So was the line "You can't fix what you can't see."
I think people are overlooking another aspect when it comes to sharding: Not all servers will have the same population. If PvP servers have the most people rolling on them on Day 1, yeah, the chances sharding may be needed goes up...for those servers.
If Blizzard had not previously lied*, to me specifically**, on this exact topic, I would be a lot more willing to believe them when they said it would be limited to starting zones at launch.
*(changing their mind and lying are the same in this context, since if you say 'never' and then change your mind, there may not have been any intent to deceive, but it is still a direct contradiction of an earlier statement)
**(or at least, to RP server players in general, not me by name)
Sharding, at launch only, for starting areas only, would not be a dealbreaker for me. I dislike it, but I would survive. However, historical evidence suggests that that is an unlikely case, regardless of what they say. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
*(changing their mind and lying are the same in this context, since if you say 'never' and then change your mind, there may not have been any intent to deceive, but it is still a direct contradiction of an earlier statement)
**(or at least, to RP server players in general, not me by name)
Sharding, at launch only, for starting areas only, would not be a dealbreaker for me. I dislike it, but I would survive. However, historical evidence suggests that that is an unlikely case, regardless of what they say. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
11/05/2018 02:53 PMPosted by DragtuslivzI think many of these folks have been fighting for classic for so long they don't know when they have won the battle. So they find any little problem they can to justify being bitter towards blizzard because after 10 years of it, it is the "normal" feeling.
I remember the early days when we had threads trying to figure out the best options for a hypothetical frankenpatch or a 1.12 server would be and they'd just all stick their heads in the ground and scream "no changes no changes" instead of actually having a discussion about what we wanted the final result to look like.
Good times.
Look at the numbers. During original release in 2004 computers were pentium4 single cpu machines with a nvidia 6400 with 256mb if they were top end and bandwidth for internet service maxed out a 100kb/s if you had a serious account. Servers were similarly nerfed by todays standards.
Now
We are talking 8 core CPUs at the top end with an 6gb buffered GPU with hundreds of parallel processors. and 16GB (Not4) as the common memory.
There are Xeon server CPUs with 20+ cores running on servers with 6Tb of memory and 10Gb of lan thru put.
I suspect that a lot of our concerns are worrying about a lot of not much. There might be some momentary sharding, but it will probably be of the "Open a second CPU and memory sandbox for the Shardmonkey server and offload the non-partied players." Sort of stuff.
As for it being a "Perfect copy of Original WoW" get over it already. It never will be, human memory is flawed, the company does not have backups that go back that far (They said so at the Con), and your own personal 'reality filter' has shifted enough to make that an impossibility. Hazzicostas promised to make an honest effort at remaining faithful to the original and has declared the databases frozen, is going to leave the classes and specs "Broken" and the lead designer is a classic fanatic himself.
I am optimistic, LoTR had me worried until I learned the director was a Tolkien fan. I believe it turned out pretty decent considering the restraints of the medium he worked with. I am in the same conceptual space with Warcraft right now and refuse to borrow trouble and worry over something, in all honesty, 99% of us have no control over. It looks like most of the 1% are in the right mindspace to handle their part of it, so I will be kicking back in the Retail version until Classic release.
Then I intend to log on and stay on until we crash and freeze and other wise freak out the servers and tech support in the traditional launch day fashion. The 15 bucks I pay compensates them for my trolling that actually counts.....
Now
We are talking 8 core CPUs at the top end with an 6gb buffered GPU with hundreds of parallel processors. and 16GB (Not4) as the common memory.
There are Xeon server CPUs with 20+ cores running on servers with 6Tb of memory and 10Gb of lan thru put.
I suspect that a lot of our concerns are worrying about a lot of not much. There might be some momentary sharding, but it will probably be of the "Open a second CPU and memory sandbox for the Shardmonkey server and offload the non-partied players." Sort of stuff.
As for it being a "Perfect copy of Original WoW" get over it already. It never will be, human memory is flawed, the company does not have backups that go back that far (They said so at the Con), and your own personal 'reality filter' has shifted enough to make that an impossibility. Hazzicostas promised to make an honest effort at remaining faithful to the original and has declared the databases frozen, is going to leave the classes and specs "Broken" and the lead designer is a classic fanatic himself.
I am optimistic, LoTR had me worried until I learned the director was a Tolkien fan. I believe it turned out pretty decent considering the restraints of the medium he worked with. I am in the same conceptual space with Warcraft right now and refuse to borrow trouble and worry over something, in all honesty, 99% of us have no control over. It looks like most of the 1% are in the right mindspace to handle their part of it, so I will be kicking back in the Retail version until Classic release.
Then I intend to log on and stay on until we crash and freeze and other wise freak out the servers and tech support in the traditional launch day fashion. The 15 bucks I pay compensates them for my trolling that actually counts.....