They’re a WoW PvPer. It’s completely natural for them to say random nonsense that doens’t make any sense while thinking PvErs are beneath them while simultaneously playing the least played end game pillar - so it’s easier to be a top “1% PvPer” by volume alone than a top 1% PvEr.
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Bragging about how good you are at pvp in a pve focused game is like me going to a chess tournament and bragging about how much I can bench press.
Not only is nobody in that venue going to care, but they would all laugh at me for not bragging at a lifting focused venue.
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that’s a pretty bad analogy. mainly because you assume gym bros don’t know how to play chess.
PVP is the endgame of wow, it’s where washed up raiders and dungeoneers end up when the game no longer has that rush it once did. once you decide to switch from full time PVE to PVP, you learn you’ve only just now started playing World of Warcraft and the whole game up until now has just been the tutorial.
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I can do both- why would I assume others cannot? The analogy is about a person thinking they are hot stuff when in a situation where nobody cares about the thing the person is bragging about.
Going to a cooking class and bragging about your welding skills.
Going to a basketball court and bragging about you football skills.
Going to an art exhibit and bragging about how fast your car is.
Going to a pve game and bragging about how good you are at pvp.
See the pattern?
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yep, people with no pvp experience thinking they know pvp
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Completely agree with your post. After playing around with the Frost changes, I absolutely despise having to time Frostwyrm’s and Scythe now, its so annoying and feels horrendous when you mistime it, but the amount of dmg you get from timing it properly is absurd. The CDR and 12 sec duration on pillar annoy the hell out of me too. They need to remove Icecap, and just make pillar a 1 minute flat CD that increases your Str by 20% for 15 seconds, and move Dmg back into the core abilities, so Obliterate doesn’t hit like a wet noodle. If they want CDR on Frost, leave it on Scythe, not our main Dmg CD.
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That’s untrue. Any space that contains groups of people and objectives will have competitive appeal to it. Even speed leveling was competitive back in vanilla.
Also wow was originally designed with pvp in mind which is inherently competitive.
Taking out Murderous Efficiency along with obliteration spending more RP in the expansion would would probably fix a huge part of the resource flooding, but the 30% change to refund a rune during obliteration along with having pillar up longer with The Long Winter and the CRD from ice cap will still lead to resource flooding.
I don’t think they need to remove it but having it in the middle of the tree and not a capstone that can’t be taken with breath or obliteration has caused a lot of issue. not least of which is part of the resources issues me and Gorkroth have been talking about.
I honestly think it should be a choice node with obliteration so taking it is once again a choice between sustained damage or burst. (Assuming the PoF scaling gets fixed.)
Unrelated Thought. What if PoF scaling worked like the Crusade choice node for Ret paladins.
Have it be a choice between flat 20% Strength or the scaling component with no starting bonus.
They mainly play epic battlegrounds which they have admitted to time and time again. Pay them no attention.
Whats funny is you dont see these “best players” getting world firsts or anything like that so saying pvpers are the best players is just a wrong thing to say.
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I don’t 100% mind the concept of ramp damage, because it’s allows for some spec dps nuance. A small cost to swap targets. I’m okay with that notion. But let it be icy talons and razor ice only…
Temporary and uncapped ramp is not healthy game design. Piled on top of MORE ramp damage is just to the point of unfun gameplay.
We have to go to sims and 3rd party websites to learn the optimal rotation in a dnd/RW/pillar window. It feels bad when it’s optimal to sandbag resources for a specific rotation 15-20 seconds from now, when we have no idea what the pull is going to look like at that point. You really cant enter a pillar window without adequate RP, runes, and now CDs.
Icy talons ramps, razor ice ramps, RW ramps and encourages rune spending, pillar ramps and encourages a specific rotation during the window and to end with FWF and FrScy. Scythe also desyncs for the next pillar window because of the CDs, meaning your next pillar window plays very differently at the top end of your str bonus. Which is just awkward and weird.
Then you have spec gimmick junk like BoS and playing the RP mini game, or stand in dnd and hope you do t get swirlies for 5-7 global.
All while juggling 2 unique resources.
Like do they even know what the decision load for dk is at this point?
It’s all so convoluted and weird. I love frost dk, but I just can’t play the spec anymore.
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I don’t mind either its definitely the uncapped scaling that I have an issue with. As some one else in this thread or another pointed out Enduring Strength is technically a form of scaling damage but no one is overly bothered by it because its a flat bonus.
Its going to be so cringe needing a weakaura that shows if PoF has enough CD left that the internal CD on Ice Cap procs wont let it proc enough to come of CD before Frost Scythe would so you can use it outside of PoF and not just ignore that its off CD till Pillar is back up.
The CDR on PoF and F-Scythe should be from the same effect and have the same ICD so they always align.
Or they could just have it work like Festering Scythe. Consume 5-10 KM and Obliterate becomes Frostscythe.
Yeah… I fancy my self a DK main more than any one spec but frost is the spec I got good at the game while playing. It feels so bad to see it in its current state.
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Thats because those sites exist. They dont want you to do that, but its a reality because to combat the ease of information, discords and so on that they have to increase the difficulty of stuff to try to keep people interested. Take away all the addons and 3rd party sites and you would see a drop in complexity and probably the rise of having more fun.
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I feel this one. DK was my main for about three expansions and was the class that I went from clueless noob to hardcore raider while playing. That toon will always have a special place in my heart and I’ve been watching the updates and scratching like a crackhead hoping to go back to it in TWW.
Not so sure at this point. Having to wait 10-12 seconds (more in TWW) to use your juicy aoe moves is just not fun in a game where most classes are nuking right from the pull. It really sucks to see stuff start dying before your damage has even ramped up.
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It’s going to be cringe having 2KM stacks going into the “last” GCD of Pillar and pressing Frostscythe to get it within said GCD, only to get an auto crit and give you another GCD during Pillar with The Long Winter and a KM proc that gets munched.
And if you’re playing Shattering Blade it’s worse, because you’ll also want to get a final Frost Strike in with the new Obliteration passive they just added, meaning you’ll need to be floating 0-1 KM procs, likely 0, at the end of Pillar to ensure the one you get from the FS doesn’t munch and to give some extra breathing room for Scythe.
I know this too well unfortunately. I really enjoyed Havoc during Legion and clocked in almost 80 days played before Antorus. Now my Havoc is pushing 100~ after 3 more expansions. I was pretty excited to have my DK pass my OG Paladin from 2005~ recently in days played but I mainly like playing Frost (and Blood, but that’s maybe 1/3rd of the play time). With the current way they’re designing the spec, I’m thinking it might just be better to shelf the class. I don’t necessarily want it to be super easy always blasting like Ret, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that I shouldn’t have to track all of these conditions (end of Pillar, Icecap CDR, Scythe CDR, Razorice stacks for Shattering) just to do the same DPS or a few % better than other specs, or worse DPS than Unholy.
I’m still a firm believer that Frostreaper should’ve never been added and that if “Big Obliterates” needed to be a thing, it should’ve been like Mongoose Bite, where you’d have a controllable window to achieve that.
Funny enough, people endlessly like to talk about “Big Obliterates” but in S1, Mongoose Bite was hitting harder* than Obliterate. Lots of variables to that though, I just find it funny how people say Obliterate “chunks” because it hits for 800k~900k now on the high end when there’s easily 5 specs that were hitting those numbers in Season 1.
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Even not looking at obliteration as an Issue Shatter seams like it will have the issue of wanting to use it on the 4th to 5th global from the end of PoF so you can regain full stacks before using FS and FWF.
I haven’t put any testing into builds using shatter my self. Does this seam like an issue to you?
Agreed. The numbers Obliterate hits for are only impressive during the last half of Pillar of Frost and even then are less impressive than most other melee specs.
When I said competitive gameplay has never been part of WoW’s appeal, I’m speaking generally. You and the small click of people that are around you may like competitive gameplay, but you and your friends are the exception, not the rule.
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I agree 100% with you on all fronts. M+ has literally wrecked the entire game balance wise and to use a rigged reddit poll to try and say “PVP is the least played game mode” is just absurd. Queue for a BG or Q for an Arena and see how fast a match pops up. Now try to piece together M+ teams. I will concede you can get an M+ team together faster than a pug RBG, But you need twice as many players for a pug RBG.
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They literally made the spec less fun to play that the earlier versions of tww beta/pre patch from listening to dumb af suggestions such as these.
Congratulations, you just damaged a spec rotation. Now it’s literally more stale than before.
Pillar at 45 sec cd which makes no sense, the removal of variable icecap would at least be more bearable if it was 30 seconds, but 45?? Lol, get screwed, i guess this is what you get for making dumb suggestions.
ME nerfed but you still overcap, because unless they destroy resource generation you are still gonna overcap, but nerfing resource gen would just lead to you wasting procs, the only difference is that you now waste more KM procs than before, or just straight up have not enough resources during your main cds. CONGRATS! What a GREAT IDEA, you traded an issue for a bigger issue, genius idea, thanks, if only more people made suggestions as well thought out as yours and your peers, so we could damage or even ruin every single class in the game.
You still don’t really do much damage outside of cds, even though it wasn’t a problem because pillar of ice uptime was like in the high 60%, even 70%.
And what did we get in return? Nothing.
All they needed to do was take the idea for increased runic power consumption during oblit, and apply it to the baseline ability, and also add it to glacial advance, then increase runic power cap to 150. And problem solved. Oh but that’s just a “bandaid” fix, yea it’s a “bandaid” Because it’s not your preferred solution, the problem is, your preferred solution of slashing resource gen is trash, and literally results in a less fun gameplay. At a certain point you have to realize that maybe, just maybe trying to solve an “issue” while ruining the actual gameplay is not a good idea, maybe you should try to look at the bigger picture.
It still feels fine overall, but it’s certainly not as good as before. At least make pillar 30 sec with icecap, or just revert that garbage, aside the pillar strength stacking mechanic, which i’m fine with removing, and actually solve the problem in a clever way.