The 4 set damage does less than bubbling wax or that ara kara trinket. They nerfed us to the ground. And they are going to leave us there
that must be why they broke bubbling wax 
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I mean, they fixed that. By making Wax not usable on weapons above ~613 ilvl. Canât out DPS the tier set if you canât use it in the first place. 
Well, crit always has done a flat amount of increase for all classes. Itâs 200% damage on a percentile chance based on rating. Itâs a flat increase.
Well, guess what, so is Vers. Vers is a flat guaranteed scaling increase.
The reason they are the only two stats that are good is the functional nonexistence of haste and mastery scaling.
They were going to fix mastery scaling a bit to make it half-usable, but because the mastery bonus neither increases the proc rate and the gain-per-point is abysmally low, we have zero reason to take it.
Same with haste, it does extra autos. Oh boy. They tried forcing the scaling by tying ADR to it, but all that did was upset us because now we have to take a 10-20% haste dip to get what we functionally already had, and also get zero extra bonus.
So, instead of giving us proper scales to incentivize usage of the stats, they just spit on us and said âdeal with itâ.
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Yeah they did .
Not only that but looking at Heroic results from the last week, Outlaw is abysmal in that content, as well. Itâs almost like the dude had no idea what they were talking about and just took the first week of data at face value like he was called out on.
Oh well, time to go play Mage so I know that as a DPS one of my specs will always be cracked.
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The average rogue now is lean and mean and can exploit even the tiniest buff to massive amounts. Blizzard very much made this monster.
They need to simplify the spec and close the skill gap to gain new players back into rogue.
Right now blizzard is pulling its numbers from grand masters because they are the only ones left playing. So of course they have no clue how to fix this.
We would all have to collectively agree to get drunk while playing and make all rogues look awful intentionally and make the issue too large to ignore.
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Essentially yes. This is my view of things. Rogues have qualities that make us very good. But this qualities require a pretty significant amount of skill to manifest. Its why Rogues have consistently been represented in PvP content seemingly without regard for the overall state of the class at any given time.
These qualities are inarguably control and set up. This is not intuitive by the way. When someone rolls a Rogue that isnât even the fantasy the game sells. Go on. Roll a new Rogue and mouse over the class description.
These traits are evergreen. They never go out of style and they are always potent. And the best among us can exploit them to great and disproportionate effect. As a result the class has to be kept on a tight leash. So average Rogues suffer as a result.
Just about ever instance I can think of where Rogues were objectively OP involved these already extant traits being further exploitative (lack of DR, mace stun, prep double blind / smoke bomb ) and / or us being able to dish out real damage. Killing dudes in a single stun kind of damage ala Legendary weapons, trinkets, abilities like Expose Weakness reducing armor by 100%.
Energy throttling, double resource cost, long CDs for seemingly weak abilities, making us use defensive CDs for offense all serve the purpose of balancing those of us who freed from these would go on murder sprees and ruin the fun of other players. Instead they ruin the fun of just us. The other Rogues.
It sucks knowing that anything you want to give us must first be filtered thru the lens of âbut what will the guy who can sap a Druid out of Wild Charge the mili sec he sees the debuff, do with this tool?â
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I think this is also why they keep nerfing and Rogues keep going because the few left playing Rogues have so much experience in adapting.
I mean the Kidney Shot nerf last year and this year in PVP hasnât put a dent into how Rogues approach stunlocks in PVP.
For PVE side of things Rogues using trinkets and understanding damage windows more keenly than other classes is the edge that BlizZard canât really take away.
If thatâs the case, theyâre quite literally punishing the people playing the class for just knowing how to play their game.
Reality check, devs. It genuinely doesnât matter what class you throw us at now. A large majority of the consistent rogue players can and will break other classes in similar manners. We just enjoy Rogue infinitely more.
Iâve been running a joke riptide build on my Shaman for ages and outhealing every chain-heal addict Iâve come across. Or playing Fire/Frost mage during a ton of their worst seasons and keeping up in damage.
A bad FotM player will never make a good class perform as well as a good player in a âbadâ B/C tier class will. And good Rogues are the kings and queens of making bad situations work for us.
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That isnt the âgotchaâ you think it is, youre just playing with bad players lol
Itâs not even a gotcha, what are you on about?
And yeah, welcome to the existence of a bell curve. Half or more of people fall under the category of âmediocreâ or worse. This doesnât change the fact that players of this class have been forced to adapt to multiple bad reworks and âfixesâ, creating a need to understand things more thoroughly to circumvent them.
Hate to tell you, as someone thatâs pugged most of my content for 7+ years, the average rogue I run into tends to have a better head on their shoulders than any other class I see on a regular.
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Take this with a grain of salt but healing in PUG content low-key confirms this. I notice that Ret Paladins donât even try to avoid damage. Iâm hammering my heals onto them while the Rogue is doing fine and Iâm baffled because theyâre both melee? How are you taking all this damage bro???
And Hunters. But thatâs a given. Feign Death already and stop pulling.
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Bro im parsing 95~99 and not even being on the top half of my raid group. It feels DISGUSTING, doing less dmg then people doing blue parses. And the thing is we dont even have a dominating spec that is high up there to switch too, you got to choose the trash you want to be lul.
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Ret and BM is more forgiving as solo spects but also in PVP as it gives you room for error. When it comes to raiding and M+ there is a little more nuances to Ret and BM beyond that obviously.
Now, compare to Outlaw with RTB there isnât much room for error due to Crackshot and RTB when it comes just doing solo content and PVP. Venruki made a video about this for PVP side of things but it kind of applies on PVE side of things as well.
Or even Assassination and Envenom windows or lining up CDs with Sub during Shadow Dance/stealth windows, etc.
Openers, poison knowledge, melee positioning, etc.
Rogues do have CloS, Feint/Cheat Death, Evasion and Vanish but they are not as strong s they used to be because other classes and specs have similar/same equivalents now. But the reason why those tools are still very good is in the hands of an experienced Rogue they are more than enough. For new players they will struggle though without having a Lay on Hands on demand for example.
Rogue is not really new player friendly and the players left playing Rogue tend to have a lot of knowledge whether for solo/questing, M+, raiding, world PVP, rated PVP, etc.
I didnât want to say it but I think Ret may just be a faceroll brain dead spec on an already overtuned class. And that will just naturally result in the kind of player who stands in fire. Because theyâve kind of been allowed to do that stuff. The game has habituated them to this kind of play.
I understand that some may take umbrage at that but Paladin is like 12% of all level 80s and is the only class where there are more level 80s then there are non level 80 characters of said class. By a 2% margin as well which is pretty significant. Especially given the ease of making a new character and then just not playing them.
Like really think about that. Itâs wild.
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That has been true since WotLK though so Ret has utility which is appealing to players but also has the fantasy and has the damage people seek from hitting CDs.
Biggest reason why BlizZard has a hard time giving Ret any type of mobility because they literally have nearly all the kit.
Which makes it even more puzzling that Ret was allowed to keep extra melee range as the spec is way more mobile now than it was in BFA for example.
I want to say it. Iâll gladly say it proudly and loudly.
I donât care what you achieve in this game, Iâll never respect anyone who achieved it as aâŠ
!. BM Hunter
2. Ret paladin
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