-Update: I’ve had a few more days trying Demonology in PvP and here are some additional thoughts.
With the right talents and practice it’s a “little” better than I thought but still lacking. For now this seems best: Demonic Strength, Doom, Demon Skin, Soul Strike, Mortal Coil, Grimoire: Felguard, Demonic Consumption, Call Felhunter, Call Observer, Master Summoner.
-Shoutout to Netherhigh for the input. Doom, although it should do like 10k damage is growing on me as the pick. It’s a filler when moving or unable to do other stuff. I have had it crit for over 6k and finish someone off like you said.
-Shoutout to Erusac with the Demonic Consumption comment, it really is the power hitter over the other 2 options with the least setup of all 3 options.
I feel like I have isolated the problem of Demonology. I think either Blizzard or players fell in love with the old Wild Imps ability that read: “Your Shadow Bolt hits summon a Wild Imp from the Twisting Nether. This effect can occur every 20 sec. Each Wild Imp will cast 10 Firebolts before departing. Each Firebolt generates 5 Demonic Fury”. They decided to change Demonology in order to bring in Demon Hunters and created Demonologies new theme around a bunch of wild imps. This seems like a cool idea but it has a unintended effect. The damage that comes from a class and it’s pets needs to be taken into consideration as a whole so the class is balanced. You have to spread the allotted damage between the Warlock, the pet, 2 Dreadstalkers, a few other summonable demons, and an easy 11+ imps on the battlefield. Because of this my average hits are: Hand of Gul’dan 971 damage, Shadow Bolt 849 damage, Demonbolt 1608 damage, Dreadstalkers 318 damage in melee, Wild Imps 121 damage. These numbers are so low they feel miserable. Most of our hits do less damage than a white auto attack from current melee. Demonology might average good overall damage but it feels like you’re not doing anything. It’s not my gear as I’m 226 in 100% every slot with 226 ilev full Duelist gear, full enchants, all 6 Maw gem slots filled, etc. The only thing I’m not doing is running a Demonology legendary but let’s be honest, they are all crap compared to other classes and specializations legendaries. When I have the ability though I will make Grim Inquisitor’s Dread Calling or Forces of the Horned Nightmare.
I think slight changes and possible damage buffs would go a long way to helping Demonology, but overall I feel in order to truly fix it we need to get rid of all the imps. I’m pretty sure every single Warlock would rather have a single spawned imp that does the damage of 11 little imps, then the 11 little imps. Seeing a bunch of “121 damage” numbers does nothing for me.
I’ve been trying to make Nether Portal work in PvP even though it’s lacking. So far I have this combo: First get 5 Soul shards. You can Soul Strike and Shadow Bolt once, or after you get x2 Soul Strikes then: Death Coil > Nether Portal > Deadstalkers > Call Fel Lord > Axe Toss if needed > Demonic Tyrant > Hand of Gul’ Dan > Grimoire: Felguard > Demonic Strength. This feels good to do. Hopefully Nether Portal is buffed because it’s a cool ability.
-Original post: I want to give some of my thoughts about Demonology after playing around with it for a few days. I’m really curious about others opinions on the specialization.
It seems completely lacking in PvP. I postulate the none Maldiva Warlocks who have success with Demonology in PvP either have a healer to keep them alive, or a team to hide behind. I think any Demonology Warlock in any competent 1v1 vs any class will lose. I even died in the Maw vs random mobs which felt embarrassing. Mobs I completely crushed when switching to Destruction.
With PvE as the only option, it seems using our Succubus with the “Pleasure through Pain” PvP talent instead of our Felguard is the best option. It feels cleaner and you build imps at a better pace.
Nether Portal in it’s bad state is still the best talent in the 50 talent row. Sacrificed Souls and Demonic Consumption both are damage increases, but they feel marginal. Nether Portal however feels impactful and cool when used right. I tend to open combat with: send pet>instant call Dreadstalkers>Power Siphon>Demonbolt>Demonbolt or x2 Shadowbolt>Nether Portal>Hand of Gul’dan>Demonic Tyrant>Hand of Gul’dan>Shadowbolt to Hand of Gul’dan spam. The amount of demons that come out of that Nether Portal is insane and make me feel awesome.
Master Summoner should be baseline and Demonic Calling should be replaced by a new talent. Summon Vilefiend should be instant cast. Inner Demons should be baseline and replaced with a new talent. Sacrificed Souls should be baseline and replaced with a new talent. Nether Portal should be instant cast, on a 2 minute cooldown, and the summoned demons damage should be increased.
Shadowbolt, Demonbolt, Hand of Gul’dan and Implosion should have a damage increase.
Hand of Gul’dan and Summon Demonic Tyrant should be instant cast.
Those are my thoughts so far. Demonology feels fun, it just feels like it needs buffs, especially for PvP. Please let me know your thoughts and correct my thinking errors if I’m seeing something wrong so far.
i would disagree regarding wpvp 1v1s (that’s its strength if you talent a lot of instant casts). But except for wpvp (including maw mobs) and torgast, everywhere else is where ppl seem to have problems with the spec.
Very few seem to make it work in arenas. I have problems with it whenever there is a second opponent ccing me; it destroys any effective demo rotation i would have.
PPL also complain about getting into higher mythic keys with it and it being effective in +14’s and above.
I’ve posted so many times about Demo I’m just going to quote from previous posts. These are my thoughts about Demo currently, why it needs a rework, and possible solutions.
They really should just bring back MoP/WoD Demo that would instantly solve every single problem the spec has. Unholy DK already fulfills the fantasy of summoning an army of minions better than Demo does and it really doesn’t make sense for that to be Demo’s philosophy. Here’s my reasoning on why I think a revert would be a great solution:
Needs serious damage buffs. It’s disruptive but that’s about it, and as many people say there’s no reason to take a warlock over a Fire mage in any arena situation ever.
Playing it wrong. 1v1 demo isn’t bad. Locks are still good 1v1. Felguard is leaps and bounds better than all other pets. It’s also the “tankiest” lock spec out in the world, you can easily kill pretty much anything in the maw solo.
Demonic consumption build is the only decent build. Any other is trash tier. rated Pvp wise… just play the other 2 specs.
Netherhigh - I could see Demonology doing okay in wpvp “if” it gets the jump on someone. But a Demonology Warlock questing and then randomly getting jumped by a Rogue, Monk, Warriors, etc I feel has no chance.
I can see you use the Sash of Endereth paired with Essence Drain to try and stay alive while your pets kill. I also crafted that lego and tested it but didn’t find success, although I never tried it with Demonology. Can you give me your experience with it so far and how it’s working out for you?
The spec only works in world pvp if you are hiding which is never the case since warlocks are always a target in pvp situations. And honestly demo is only good for torghast and that’s it. The developers never made an effort to fix the spec since the version they made in legion that highly depended on thal’kiels consumption and the artifact traits. Honestly they failed Demonology
I think 1v1 Demonology is bad because the on demand damage is not there. I agree Warlocks are still good 1v1. From what I saw, I disagree that Felguard is leaps and bounds better than all other pets. The Imp does just about if not exactly the amount of damage Felguard does and can get out of CC to keep DPSing with “Flee”. I think Voidwalker is a better tank because it’s main spender “Consuming Shadows” heals itself, and it has an oh crap button “Shadow Bulwark”. I think Felhunter is better when fighting casters because “Spell Lock” has a 24 second cooldown and Axe Toss has a 30 second cooldown so you can interrupt more. I think Succubus is better vs melee because she has a permanent slow “Whiplash”, and “Seduction” CCs longer than Axe Toss.
Personally I feel Felguard is not better than any other pet in it’s roll, it’s just good at being a jack of all trades to fit all roles at once and does it pretty well.
My experience has been that its not a problem getting jumped by most classes, particularly a rog, if its a 1v1 situation. LIke another poster in the thread stated, the demo lock is very tanky with the fel guard/soul leech/demon skin. It also has a lot of cc. I think the key is talenting all the instance cast/big cds you can; you can’t count on being able to hard cast. Of the classes you listed interestingly the dps monk gives me the most problems; in SL it just seems to melt me in ways that other melee classes don’t.
The Sash is used as 1) filler if i don’t think i can get a hard cast off and no other instant casts are available, and 2) replenishment of health if needed. I also have an endurance soul conduit that further buffs it. It is a helpful and fun additional tool to mix in to both demoralize the enemy and keep you alive, but it does not replace your main offensive attack which for me is doom/dogs(instant), observer (if i take it), Grimoire Fel Guard (which cc’s the target and allows for the Tyrant hard cast), Tyrant, Trinket, Pot, Demonic Strength. I will usually acquire initiative after that point. Note that other than the Tyrant there are no hard casts. I also soul conduit Fel Commando to make the Fel Guard hit harder.
Finally, all this highlights why Demo has problems in arenas, if another player besides your target cc’s you, you will not get off that Tyrant sequence.
How much do you enjoy Doom over Power Siphon? Doom requires 16 seconds to do damage which in PvP is horrible, but Power Siphon requires Inner Demons to truly be optimal and Grimoire: Felguard is just to good to pass up.
I have no legendaries made for Demonology but one I do have that I recommend you trying is Pillars of the Dark Portal and select Gateway Mastery in place of Essence Drain for your PvP talents. The ability to not only gate twice while your pets is beating on the enemy, but you can instantly drop a gate while melee is on you which feels invaluable. For Destruction I can’t go without my baby Cinderflame and with Affliction I have to take Sacrolash. With Demonology however, unless I craft Implosive Potential or Demonic Synergy, Pillers of the Dark Portal feels amazing.
If there was one thing I could change in this game it would be to revert demonology back to what it was in MoP/WoD. That was my first and favorite spec I played. Loot being too tough to get, too much grinding, rng, I wouldn’t care about any of it because I would be playing a spec that I love playing. I like my warlock, but man do I miss my old demonology buddy.
Yeah I don’t have 11 hours to do 1/3rd of the damage of a Fire Mage’s burst while literally having to have every enemy player and pet fully stunlocked down and pray that they don’t have frost nova, roots, slow, dragons breath, blind or any other cc at all to ruin my burst completely.
I use doom to instant tag targets, get them in combat, and defacto attack command the fel guard. The damage and shard you get later are a bonus (randomly the doom dot will hit very hard and delete low health ppl). With the new curses in SL the need for the doom instant tag is less but i still do it.
I don’t touch power siphon because of my strong preference to use doom and the fact that i never use inner demons.
I am not skilled in the use of gates so I stay away from buffs for their use (that legendary sound very good if you excel at gate use). I am looking at the legendaries that allow movement while you hardcast and will try that when they allow you to equip two legendaries.
I appreciate you sharing your experience with me. I start by spamming Soul Strike and pet attack “Soul Strike has 10 yard more range than any other ability”. Then when the enemy gets to the 30 yard range I Grimoire: Felguard > Call Dreadstalkers > Doom > Demonic Strength while running in the opposite direction. I try to kite spamming Soul Strike and letting my pets beat on them until they can close the gap. Then I like to Soul Rot in their face to bait the interrupt. If they kick it I fear, if they don’t kick it, I Death Coil “stand in Field of Blossoms” and cast Demonic Tyrant into Hand of Gul’dan “while hovering over Axe Toss” just in case I need it. If I don’t need the Axe Toss to get that Hand of Gul’dan off then I use the Demonic Core proc into a Soul Strike and use the Axe Toss to get another Hand of Gul’dan off.
I think you should test Power Siphon and Inner Demon sometime. With them I like to Soul Strike and pet attack > once in 30 yards Dreadstalkers > Power Siphon > Demonbolt x1or2 > Death Coil > Hand of Gul’dan > Fear > Demonic Tyrant > Hand of Gul’dan > etc.
I think Power Siphon and Inner Demon feel better personally. When you’re jumped: Axe Toss and pet attack > Dreadstalkers > Power Siphon > Demonbolt > Death Coil > Hand of Gul’dan > Fear > Demonic Tyrant > Hand of Gul’dan, etc.
When it comes to Demonic Gateway, playing with Pillars of the Dark Portal would help you! It will allow you to click a location and see if a portal can be dropped instantly and you can spam it while moving. You will be shocked at how many places this will show you that you can gate that no one thinks about. You can really abuse some interesting locations. It also lets you basically have a “I don’t want to fight right now” button. You can 60 yard gate in any direction, take it, and then Soulshape run until you can mount up. If they burn things like Flying Serpent Kick, etc once you gate, then you just gate 60 yards back in the opposite direction and run that way. Personally I think it feels better when you never have to die and always have the option of just running. Sort of like how a Rogue feels with Vanish and Paladins use the feel with bubble/hearth. Even without Pillars of the Dark Portal and just taking Gateway Mastery feels great. Getting jumped by melee and being able to Death Coil into a 60 yard gate retreat feels good. Also getting dog piled by melee and being able to Unending Resolve > Demonic Gateway to a 60 yard retreat feels good.
My one comment would be to try as an experiment, maybe initially on some rare in the open world, tyrant > demonic strength, just to see its effect. It is easily the biggest burst damage i have gotten the spec to do and why I basically built my main rotation around it.
Your comments on the gates are noted; I will try and get better with them.