I thought that I was anti-RDF. I was wrong

Full disclaimer, I’m not a level 70, I didn’t play a whole lot in TBC Classic but I did play some Classic Era. I haven’t been active on retail in years. I started Wrath originally when it already had the dungeon finder.

When Wrath was initially announced as not having RDF, I was excited. “Wow, this will be a whole new experience of Wrath for me! I’ll get to experience Wrath with the immersion of manual grouping and seeing dungeon entrances.”

The idea on paper is cool – imagine adventuring around, making friends, seeing dungeons in their full glory and putting groups together for the dungeons as an extension of the adventuring we’re doing around it anyway.

The reality couldn’t be further from the truth. People generally aren’t around the dungeons. You put a group together through an un-immersive LFG tool and through competing with spam in LFG chat. Then if you’re lucky someone else will get to the entrance in less than 30 minutes to summon everyone else. And if you’re lucky you can all communicate together. And if you’re lucky it’s a good group that can clear the content.

Instead you spend all that time putting the group together only to find out after having invested all that time that the group wasn’t good enough (people queueing for roles they don’t know how to play, not communicating, AFKing, people “disconnecting”, everything that people fear from RDF happens already). So if you can’t struggle it through and the party breaks up, you have to start it all over again and hope that the second round goes better.

Then you run into the dungeon, spend the time clearing the content, and maybe get 1 level. In that time, if you were questing instead, you could have gotten 2 levels, so you feel discouraged to try other dungeons unless you’re playing a tank or healer, and you just go back to questing, or you consider that level 70 boost, or the community ends up doing mage boosting and not even bothering with the real WoW experience at all. How immersive.

The lack of RDF has honestly killed my desire to play because dungeons should be a part of the overall leveling experience and just relying on questing sucks. I don’t want to go through the hell of putting the groups together again when they go like that. If I had a bad group with the dungeon finder that couldn’t clear, it would be hardly any time wasted in comparison to find a replacement member or get into a better group.

There’s a disconnect between the anti-RDF crowd and the actual people playing the game, and I suspect that maybe the former are those that already leveled to 70 (or boosted their character) and maybe either feel like “I had to do it the hard way, why shouldn’t everyone else?” Or they think more people at endgame is more competition for them.

With this current system, people just won’t stick to Wrath except for those that were already invested into Classic before. It’s not an experience that holds up without RDF in people’s modern lives. We’re not unemployed teenagers with tons of time on our hands anymore, we can’t invest 16 hour days into WoW and have the most immersive experience. The community has changed, people will boost instead of bother, and this is not good game design when Blizzard isn’t actively trying to make the leveling experience better to push people away from boosts.

I was wrong, and I changed my mind. I hope Blizzard does too.

45 Likes

If you wanted to level with dungeons fresh servers were a better choice many more leveling groups for every dungeon for the first few weeks.

WoW is designed very differently to other games in which content is only relevant for a very short time as there is no incentive to do content you dont (or no longer) need.

Your best bet is finding a guild who will help you with stuff they no longer need so you can get up to par.

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I want everything in classic that is in retail, they just better not call it retail because I hate retail.

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Similar to you, OP, back during Classic and even into TBC Classic I used to say Wrath would be better off without RDF. Boy, was I wrong. The reality of the toxicity in TBCC really opened my eyes about how vital RDF is.

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Classic case of “you think you do, but you don’t”. I knew as soon as I heard there was no RDF that it was going to be a disaster. It practically spits in the face of everything WOTLK is supposed to be.

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Good on you to admit it publicly.

Wrath = RDF
This current “classic” Wrath is using a retail lfg tool instead of RDF that was a WOTLK expansion defining feature.

What would be wrong with releasing an actual Wrath version of Wrath instead of whatever this current thing is ?

Imagine how arrogant you must be to think it is a good idea to make major changes to the best expansion your company ever released.

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i stopped doing dg’s unless it’s a wep i need cause i refuse to spec off sub and sub is pure garbage in them :joy: Still don’t care about rdf

Correct.
Systems don’t make people toxic.
Systems only expose people’s toxicity.
And in the case of RDF, all it does is to expose intolerance of some people to other human beings, in a setup of a game where everything is about wants, not needs.

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Yeah but the solution isn’t to just randomly inject people into groups that instantly teleport them there and then I think give them a 15% buff to damage so they can just completely steam roll content.

I’m actually sure at this point people just want it because it’s the path of least resistance.

Easy xp, decent loot the whole way through and can pretty much be brain dead and not have to really do quests at all just slowly teeter from point to point waiting for dungeon pops

Much like how you level in retail

And y’all need to stop acting like it’s impossible to get a group with out a system doing it for you

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Put Wrath content into Wrath.

Except maybe Ruby Sanctum. That was an absolute hot garbage addition that the majority of players aren’t even aware exists.

I’d wager most wrath players remember it

Not fondly.

We of the pro RDF army will gladly except you into our ranks. Come fight against the tyranny of Anti RDF army and their suppression of the fair and fun gaming experience.

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I didnt enjoy it, but definitely remember it. I’ll be interested to see when they actually release it (I’m assuming parallel with ICC) as opposed to midway with a 3.3.5 timeline. Imo they should just nerf the ilvl of the gear and release it with TOC.

The player base is completely different than it was 12 years ago, they’ve become spoiled where everything was handed to them on a silver platter and most have become resentful at the current retail state. This has carried over to classic even though they wanted a new experience, and now that things have become a little more difficult they are tired and want the same spoils that originally ruined the game.

The main reason why running dungeons is hard right now is people EXPECT it to be easy since retail is easy, they EXPECT any class can do anything because in retail they can do anything. No one understands group cohesion in older content, no one understands that you might have to stop DPS and run CC for a certain pull, no one understands it takes more than aoe nuke nuke nuke mentality to clear content. Groups have a certain dynamic in wrath and before, and just because the games been out for 15+ years doesn’t mean older content is easy, especially against retail, it’s different but not a cake walk.

People have returned to classic because they wanted change and most like it in its current state, why? Because it’s at a point before the changes that ruined it are implemented, just look at the data, if people wanted retail they would stay in retail. Stop trying to implement game killing tools and start trying to promote community, the “gogogo” mentality started at the end of wrath when RDF was released and the toxic player mentality started right after that.

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With the 3.3.5 class adjustments leveling dungeons are an absolute joke anyway (not that they were that hard to begin with). 60 percent the group already feasibly gets teleported to the instance with how summoning stones work. Really all we’re doing now is making it so people just don’t do certain ones that are out of the way. I’m not really getting why this is a good thing.

Look at the data. The data does not lie.

1 Like

Still the games based on your server.

RDF pretty much deleted the whole concept of grouping up with players on your server for dungeons.

Damage buff I remember correctly.
Teleports you there instantly instantly.
No accountability if you decide to be a nerd.

The tools just a little bit too good and sort of ruined the whole concept of doing it the normal way

Those tools can easily be removed and still have the RDF in game.

Yeah I was under the impression the whole point of people wanting classic series was to go back to a simpler time and escape these things we have today.

There is heaps of stuff I wouldn’t mind then adding, transmog, reforging, rated battle grounds but I don’t want them playing with the social structures and server structure.

1 Like