Funnily enough, no worthwhile player ACTUALLY think delve gears are decent. People like my 2.5k IO RL die their way through a +10 on the very first week, and are now on like 4 or 5 mythic level items already. Even a scrub like me is already timing +9s fairly easily.
It’s really just the Heroics-only Andys who never got a wakeup call to how garbage they are at the game. Now, all of a sudden, Blizzard pretty much announces that everything at their peak gameplay level has always been just a loot pinata, so it makes sense they lose their minds lol.
I’m at a 605 ilvl and the only things outside of delves I’ve done are the first two raid wings in LFR, a couple heroic dungeons, and one world boss (no drop).
I think it’s gatekeeping, it’s just understandable gatekeeping. In my first post here I mentioned people who want to gatekeep. That’s different than doing it as collateral damage just sitting where they’re supposed to be sitting which happens to block the gate.
Look, they have every right not to take me because they think I’ll fail. They’re probably right.
But at the same time, the fact that I don’t get to try is clucked up.
That’s basically what they did. We couldn’t do above a T3 until the season started. I believe T3 dropped like questing or world quest level gear.
The problem was the keys. They let us earn them before the season, so people got a bunch of high end loot first week of the season in bountiful delves.
I don’t mean to go in circles, because your reality is born from your perception and I can appreciate the frustration of being left out - whatever we want to call it, gatekeeping, not picking the player, overlooking a player, etc. - but I think you can still try - you just can’t try with that group. You can still get a M+ key, you can still enter M+, and/or you can put together your own raid, even advertising that the raid is for folks wanting to try raiding for the first time, or whatever you want.
check this out, awesome people, and always a chill run. Been using them for a little over a year and met some cool folks I have on my btag:
But are you - as a result of being denied invite to these groups - unable to create a group of your own and access the content?
…you can also tell me to go pound sand, that’s perfectly fine with me [and I wouldn’t be offended], because regardless of yours or my view, we will still be able to go and enjoy the game, just in our own…
What LOL you could NOT get into a heroic raid without having AOTC back then I tried for over a month, I made multiple raids that did not fill because people won’t JOIN if you don’t have it and they won’t allow you in if you don’t have it, that’s gate keeping, large numbers of players not allowing anyone to raid with them on heroic. I stopped playing after BFA but that was a real issue and all over Reddit and the forums, you think that many people made that up? Gate keeping, you are objectively wrong LOL
I pugged a couple Heroic raids last expansion but didn’t need AOTC to join. I geared my toons first in M+ and then joined. You can also make your own group, but it takes experience to be a good raid leader, I’ll admit.
“AOTC only” raids are either someone who has the content on farm, or some smug jerk looking to get carried.
My issue is you outgear them. M+ feel hard for no reward aside from crests/valorstones. I did M+4’s this week, and they only drop 600 from the end and only give a 610 in the vault. But how hard they were was significantly harder then when I solo tier 8 Delves
M6 or lower and normal raid offer the same champion gear that delves has, that’s problem number 1. Problem number 2 is that heroic raid for the first 6 bosses offers the same crests a T8/M8 or lower offer.
You may think you need to do something other than delves, but fact is unless you are running M9 or equivalent for the crests you are SOL the same as the rest of us.
Even if you compare Joe Blo over here doing M7 and heroic raid, or Mary Sue getting lucky with delve maps and both getting all this shiny hero track gear, it’s 100% pointless unless they can farm the crests needed to do the upgrading.
A 4/6 hero piece is the same iLVL as a 8/8 champion piece.
Is that really good for the overall of the player base though? That’s the real question we will soon be facing.
I know players will be done, but then with said gear if someone wants to push higher, but is just not good enough skill wise, they literally have no way to farm any higher level gear to help push past that skill barrier.
The delves are kinda boring and I didn’t really want to do them. But I was pretty much forced to so I have a chance at getting into Mythic+ groups. I think they should make the delve loot a bit lower iLvl or make the M0’s a bit easier to make the progression more accessible for everyone
Oh simple loot - cause its all based around forced socialization or you don’t get , tell me one Mythic raid boss in the Neronian palace you have an option to solo ??
Oh wait its an MMOrpg and you have to Cooperate so you can do challenging content . Alright in that case why did ppl jump to delves instead of doing M + from 0 to 7 . Thats right loot , the carrot at the end of stick , the reward matters to tolerate any social structure in game
What makes this carrot special - when other ppl don’t have it > That itself requires you to gatekeep ppl
If you remove all loot in M+ and raid its would become like challenge mode in MoP , one and done . Loot is the driving factor , no matter what ppl say
I think the problem is that we all chewed through the Delves turbo fast, and there is no more progression to be had in the Delves after you get your keys done for the week…
So people are jumping into Keystones to continue their progression and the content feels sweatier… you have to wait to find groups… it takes longer… you wipe more… and then the reward for doing it like… a 2% chance per dungeon run of getting the item you wanted… and it then if you do get what you want, it feels cheapened because if you’re not doing +7’s it isn’t even a Hero track item… so you could end up just replacing it with a Vault reward… and you definitely don’t want to spend a catalyst on it.
Personally I think this just highlights all the problems with having so many gear tracks, and how unfavorable the RNG rewards from actually farming M+ dungeons is, and the fact that the M0 and M+ rewards should be higher to more appropriately match the difficulty of doing them.
There are also bottleneck issues with crests/seasonal caps/ valorstones.
Gearing this season does feel a bit scuffed. Gearing towards the end of S4 Dragonflight was really good, and coming from that into what we have now… It’s a bit unwanted, understandably I think.
