I really wish half the MW tree wasn't dedicated to casting

You still have to be in melee for melee-only mechanics, as the game definies mistweaver as a melee-spec - also your utility such as DPS spells, interrupt, paralysis and legsweep are melee ranged abilities - unusable at range.

Playing MW in caster range, even with caster talent build, is purposedly griefing your m+ team or raid team.

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Of course things will change once we’re 70. But at 60, there is no comparison. Caster MW is stronger than Melee

… no? How is a caster build supposed to be stronger? Are you thinking PvP?

You can’t properly target heal with the melee build. Ancient teachings heals a party member, not necessarily one you want it too. When rising mist is finally available with faeline stomp, it’ll help but it doesnt fix the issue.

So you’re left with a choice. Keep attacking and hope the stars line up when you need them to, or stop fighting and cast. Or you are potentially using important cooldowns before they are required.

I can keep an Uldaman run alive as caster without major cds, if the tank decides hes chain pulling the instance. No mana issues either. But as melee, either focusing on faeline or rising mist builds, i have to waste cooldowns through trash. The healing checks ive been through are undeniable.

Like i said earlier, ita possible a full melee build at 70 changes it slightly and makes it more manageable, but you still cant reliably predict who is getting healed at all times during rotation. And when team wide burst windows happen on trash, it’s not a good feeling.

…casting a vivify or EnvM doesn’t make you not a fistweaver.

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And managing some melee dps doesn’t make you not a ranged healer

This is about devoted playstyles. And full melee does not compete vs full range

Agreed, and while i havent tested any of the new dungeons, it seems to be based on the uldaman dungeon, that content will be melee unfriendly for mistweaver in DF. Add to that mana issues, SooM/Unision might not offer the highest output it is a low cost heal right now for 40k~ hp

I apologize in advance for being short, but of course if you bend over backwards to create a ‘devoted playstyle’ ignoring half the basic kit and required talent points to do ‘full melee’ it won’t play well.
Blizzard isn’t making ‘Windwalker that heals’, we are balanced around using the full kit.

A runner will notice a difference if they start one race by shooting themselves in the foot.

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I tried taking the FLS Fistweaver build into Grimrail today and wanted to uninstall the game. Having a whole spec built around standing on a ground effect that you drop with a 30s CD ability simply doesn’t work in many areas of modern WoW. It doesn’t work in a handful of boss encounters that have heavy movement. It doesn’t work with many tanks who move mobs around just because in M+. It doesn’t work in PvP at all. That’s a fundamental criticism of how Fistweaving works and isn’t even broaching the subject of how weak it is on single targets.

I didn’t encounter these issues when I was playing FLS in beta because we were testing a few dungeons at a time where people played in a more simple manner. Tanks didn’t pull the current pack towards the next pack after the dangerous mob was dead. No groups had heavy movement responses or strategies to boss encounters and instead just healed through them.

I then took a full Soothing Unison build into Lower Kara and found it completely solved the mana issue MW has while also being able to pump huge healing with Tear and Yu’lon when needed while also bringing very efficient maintenance healing but it comes with other problems. Namely that it does absolutely no damage and makes running into melee to kick or stun much more of a chore and it has to be almost always locked in place hard casting.

I wish MW was iterated on further to bring it into the modern game but every build I try runs into serious issues that some other healers just don’t have. Mana, mobility, hard casting, lack of CD’s and the dependence on other CD’s to enable playstyles makes me feel like MW is another expansion of development away from being a smooth, competitive and well designed spec.

They had this - the dmg output in legion. i really hope they move away from the healers as dmg dealers playstyle in wow. It worked terrible in overwatch.

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But there is nothing called “full melee” or “full caster” - both of these would suck. Mistweavers play in melee, and cast spells when needed, and do melee dps/healing when heavy healing isn’t needed.

You seem to have some weird notion that Mistweavers are “either or”, when infact it’s a spec that both melees and hardcasts. Talent build wise, in dungeons, CF and ToM has nothing on AT and RM, neither in pre-patch nor lvl 70 DF.

It’s fine that you like to pretend your spec is something that it’s not, but it’s not really discussing in good faith when other players could read your post and believe what you say is how the spec works, when it’s not.

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I realize there is a portion of this community trying to get everyone on board with this Kumbaya Mistweaver mentality. Which claims there is only 1 spec. But that’s not the case. The spec tree clearly defines the line in the sand with the choices you make.

You either cleave heal your party by dealing damage (and unreliably heal a desired target) or you efficiently heal your party at the expense of dealing damage.

Noone said you can’t stop fighting to hard cast if you wanted to. But there is a reason we don’t generally hard cast while mixed up in the fight with the mobs…it’s not smart. So telling me ‘hey, don’t worry we can still cast’ is a ridiculous argument when dealing with wads of damage slapping your entire party (you included).

Maybe you’ll roll out of the way first to cast, awesome. Now you aren’t melee anymore. You’ve now become an inefficiently talented ranged healer.
The devs just buffed mistweaver damage for a reason, because this is a problem.

The reason why I’m saying they are ‘either or’ is due to healing efficiency. Running OOM as a melee spec’d healer to make up for it’s inefficiencies is not good. Having an actual dps in your party die because your heals didn’t smart target him is not good.

FLS+RM is fun, it really is. I like the concept. I want it to work in all aspects of dungeon and raiding, but it doesn’t. Playing the traditional healer role still does, you just don’t deal damage.

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I realize there is a portion of this community trying to get everyone on board with this soothing mist mentality. Which claims there is a ranged spec. But that’s not the case. The game mechanics clearly define the line in the sand with the choice you make.

You either play as a melee healer, or you go stand out with the ranged players, and dump off the mechanics meant only for melee right on top of them too. They have their own mechanics to deal with already.

You can spout off these opinions of yours all day. But most mistweavers are going to want to engage in challenging content, and when mistweavers engage in challenging content, they’re going to need to optimize their class. You can run heroics and do zero damage all you want. But please stop talking about the spec as if that playstyle applies to harder content. Because it doesn’t.

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If you are running out of mana as a fistweaver you are playing hilariously wrong. The combination of SotC, Mana Tea, and 1 min chi-ji is a ridiculous amount of mana savings. 5-man content is basically permanent full party vivify cleave through RM, and raid content can see upwards of 8 target vivify hits depending.

Melee mechanics are always clearly communicated so if you’re getting surprised by them that isn’t a game issue.

You can’t just state that “But there is a reason we don’t generally hard cast while mixed up in a fight with the mobs… it’s not smart.” As a fact, and leave that as a reason for Faeline Build being inferior.

It’s definitely potentially more dangerous to cast in melee compared to range, but that doesn’t mean it’s worse - just harder to execute. And Faeline healing isn’t really unpredictable, since you only use it for low-low/mid damage, and hardcast for higher damage events.

Saying you run OOM as melee further clarifies that you don’t know what you are talking about, since both logically and practically, Faeline build is WAY more mana efficient, than hardcasting-only.

For starters, I didn’t state hard casting healing spells in melee was a result in FLS being inferior, it was a generic comment about hard casting healing in melee period. Even a ranged person might have a fight more over top of them as combat moves about the battle field. And standing in the middle of it to hard cast doesn’t always work out.

Now all that being said. I was about to come here and retract my previous statements about the healing efficiency concerns I raised. As pointed out in this thread, I’ve been using Uldaman on live as a benchmark for my own testing. And as pointed out in another thread here, it looks like Uldaman has issues currently with the AotM build, providing VERY low healing. Which in my practice (unaware of the bug) forced more hard casting, which in turn forced more mana expenditure, which resulted in my above comments.

I just left a non Uldaman dungeon and AotM appeared to be working fine. My experience with it was clearly very negatively skewed. After running non Uldaman dungeons I see it’s appeal more. As I stated in the other thread, I thought it was working when the dracthyr update landed because a week ago I had a more positive view of FLS altogether. It was only in the past few days I started discounting it.

So as I mentioned in the other thread, I was probably about to eat crow in this one.
So far, the Crow is a bit crunchy

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Yeah, Uldaman has a bug (like raids had when season 4 started) where some spells only do 5% of the throughput they are supposed to - it affects like half the specs in the game currently

Well, I’d offer some Crow as a peace offering…but there really isn’t much on the plate currently

No need for any peace offering, the whole ordeal stemmed from a misconception based on an extremely weird bug - noone was harmed :smiley:

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i’m glad they have it the way it is. i rather stay out and heal, so my talents were able to be chosen in that manner all the way down. i have no problem with others being hybrid either… that’s why these trees are great- you can build around your playstyle.

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