There’s like one-ish build for fistweaving but there could be so much more if Blizz would just go full hog and make it a melee spec.
Im glad the talent tree supports both styles and lets us pepper in as much of whichever style we want into a build.
There would, in fact, be less if they removed the entire caster side of things. xD
mostly depends on what you are considering caster focused, cause the only talents which are explicitly not useful for fistweaving are like the five Soothing Mist talents.
Most of the important Caster/Fist choices are in choice nodes (e.g. Clouded Focus/Ancient Teachings and Tear of Morning/Rising Mist), which is how they should be done, unlike the HPal tree where it’s all mixed.
Although Faeline Stomp nodes being useless for Caster and SooM nodes being useless for Fist isn’t great, but still better than HPal.
Oh yeah because an honest reading of my OP implies that instead of replacing the casting talents, they should just lob half the tree off. That’s what full hog means to me.
Replace them all with melee style abilities, as well as Zen Pulse, and the associated talents.
All this means is that if you want to play a monk, you have zero choice once you’ve decided into fistweaving or bad monk healing.
Any MW sitting around channeling soo mist nonstop or who is not in melee is playing MW poorly and not making use of the whole toolkit/talents.
There is no fistweaving or mistweaving divide anymore. If they had brought back Effuse+Sheilun’s Gift and it’s buffs as endcap talents ( from legion ) Id agree there could be a “ranged” build again, but currently we are all Mistweavers just peppering in the various abilities as we see fit. The “casting/ranged” build is more or less “mana savings and tank healing” heavy more than anything. The major difference is the other build you can go is buffing healing through soo mist but you still dont sit there soo misting non stop.
We still have times when we cast SooMist even if it’s just to get an Env mist out. The talents you call “casting/ranged” basically just allows for cheaper/stronger spells casted through soo mist, that doesnt mean if you take those talents you are sitting around soo misting all the time.
It means when you need to cast extended Env/Viv on a single target it is strong, and the cleave healing through ren mist is also stronger. Thus justifying the .5 extra gcd when you heal through soo mist on someone by rotating Env->Viv->Env or Env->viv->viv.
Another example is the talent that gives life cocoon 150% more absorb when you soo mist. Youd be dumb to sit there soo misting to build it up, the JSS statue will build it up for you if you remember to place and start it. So again, not a “caster” thing, it’s a MW thing. There is really no major reason to sit there SooMisting non stop, we have too much going on to be doing that.
Most MW will/should still be weaving in TP+bokx3+RSK to get the extra ren mist out and mana regen if they took those 2 talents, and Id suggest even people not going fey line/Ancient Teachings/RIsing mist build to still pick up as they offset the mana costs greatly and make more ren mists for cleave. In raids youll be able to regen mana too on downphases through dmg.
Granted that’s the case with many Spec trees.
Atleast MW has more freedom than BrM.
I mean, kind of. My issue is that half-ish of the talent tree has been dedicated to a playstyle that I think is antiquated. Mistweaver has suffered an identity crisis for years now. The faeline stomp/teachings build is the best this spec has felt maybe ever, but I can’t help but wonder what other things could be added if they would just decide that this is a melee spec.
We don’t do this with any other spec in the game, except maybe hpals, though I think that ship has sailed for them. We don’t ask for rogues to have viable ranged abilities, nor warriors or demon hunters. These are all melee classes and are designed as such. This is a lesson we’ve already learned with the feral druid. The talent trees for druids were so handcuffed because it had to work for two different roles. Just get rid of the ranged monk all together, demand they do damage for the spec to work.
MW was at its peak in MoP and has never come remotely close to that fun ever again
This is a really fresh topic.
And yet the opinions expressed are still so bad
Can agree there. Whole thread/Idea is so bad xD
I think the issue here is that a lot of SooM talents do directly benefit holding the spell for most if not all of the duration due to the ‘if the channel ends this effect ends’ line or simply due to the way the talent is designed.
Every time you switch targets or do something other then cast SooM those talents lose value.
It’s very similar to the ‘based on current stagger’ issue with BrM where the effect isn’t technically bad it’s just the natural desire to maximize the effect pushes bad gameplay.
Way I see it is you are trading the more spread out raid healing for stronger+sustained burst/ST depending on the nodes taken. With PM/CF being better if you extensively need to use Soo->Env->viv->viv or Soo->Env->viv->Env more often, offsetting the .5 gcd when wed spam viv. It would be nice however if those buffs lingered for 5-10 seconds after Soom stopped, or if JSS could SooM for longer (+300% normal duration) and help keep the buffs rolling when we stop/do other things.
Imagine if we actually had a full set of melee-focused talents, like every other class gets (talents that enhance their spec). We might actually bring the kind of utility that mythic plus groups are looking for.
Instead we’re stuck with a bare-bones kit that gets the job done, but nothing more.
Going by your m+ progress it seems we are just fine. ( you seem to have no issues pushing higher keys yourself )
MW has been about burst healing, and we do bring useful utility to content. If youd rather go play another class with more utility you are free to - but MW will be fine for DF and it’s healthy for the game that the philosophy has been to allow options/choices in builds.
Apparently disc is having mana issues right now, r sham damage is depressingly low ( which puts them lower in m+ ).
It could be much worse.
Precisely this. Anyone who wants to tell me the soothing mist/ranged monk healer is good gameplay is trolling. It’s awful because it’s not a fully fleshed out spec. The same applies to the fistweaving style. I simply think that a monk should be a melee class but trying to cover both just spreads the development thin.
Literally does not exist. There is no “ranged” MW build
If we got rid of the specifically ranged abilities that would be five passive talents, utility would be a long shot.
How is there no ranged mw build? If you aren’t specifically taking the melee based talent choices, you have no reason to be in melee. Thus you’ll be healing from distance.
As someone that has done both melee and non melee healing as we are able to currently, non melee allows for better focused healing when it’s needed.