That sounds kinda sick to me. Rage-consumed Blood Gnome berserkers.
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Sick as in a lack of creative power so powerful that it manifests as a medical condition?
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weâve had years of horde vs alliance war just fine, but after MOP happened they are unable to write a faction plot without ââone side is evil evil bad disney villainââ NO, there is no right or wrong unless you write nonsense; you see attacking the night elves is one thing, theyâre always warmonging with the horde, but burning their house is wrong by all points of view, even for the horde, like, you could have taken teldrassil as a hostage, explored their resources⌠but no, letâs burn them because weâre all psychopaths, just to make the alliance come after us full in rage, brilliant eh?
ââbut it was all sylvanas and jailer masterplanââ back in cata/mop when garrosh blows theramore, there were trolls, taurens and belves conspiring against him, but if their warchief is a hot elf suddently its not wrong anymore
the horde need to gather their strenght and remove alliance from their territories, theres still alliance setlements in the barrens and even durotar :
Even after the Fourth War, the Northwatch Expeditionary Unit was guarding and rebuilding the keep
but this time horde needs to only make defensives moves until alliance strike first, war is inevitable and the amirstice wonât last, but thereâs no need to go on a rampage just to get a third siege to orgrimmar, even though itâs the fault of the blizzard team that writes them, and not the horde, because in the lore they are well capable of that, they are not stupid ravagers like in warcraft 1, without a warchief they can be even more independent, trolls absolutely hate the alliance for what they did in dazar alor, and the darkspear and maghar are willing to help them.
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this would lead to an much bleacker scenario, i mean, if everything both faction do has some kind of Justification, what is the purpose of not handle extrem all the time, i mean, its justified in the end by some meaning.
the night elfs are a bad example in general here, because the horde did soo much harm that it can´t be and should not be justified in the first place.
it would not feel really good or even be a better written story if we justify everything to argue every escalation, sometimesâŚsome sides did only harm, there is no justification for this and there should be no justification.
Except there isnât any philosophy to it, just worthless sad sacks who cant possibly bear to live anymore
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Last paragraph: souls exist in warcraft. You are your soul.
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That is fair, though I wonder how that works out psychologically over time. Being a collection of stitched together corpse parts cannot be good for your sense of identity. It is really fascinating to imagine what a forsaken who managed to hang on for centuries would be like. Would there even be any âhumanityâ left to them?
The only forsaken-adjacent being we have to go off is Meryl and well⌠he is an extraordinary person in general.
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Time in general dehumanizes.
If nelves and dwarves can do it for ten thousand, I imagine that (un)life will find a way.
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No it wouldnât. It would lead to a scenario where each side can say that they did the right thing from their point of view. Early WoW actually pulled this off quite well, and it was much less bleak than it is now.
If I were in charge of the story, the burning of Teldrassil would never have happened. That was a terrible idea. The hypothetical Sacred Grove of Blaghâdara would have been uninhabited (except by Old Gods) at the time it was burned.
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Boy, reading that made me sad.
I have no idea what youâre talking about. The game and every piece of literature that went with it portrayed the burning of Teldrassil as absolutely the most heinous thing that ever happened in the history of Azeroth. What makes you think theyâre saying itâs not wrong?
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I will never understand Blizzards motive for re-introducing her in Legion only to kill her and make her an undead in a BFA tie-in novel.
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Iâm replying to you specifically for a couple reasons; I think the most important, though, is reading through all of the reasoning you post that makes a lot of sense.
I didnât realize it before, and it might not be 100% true, but from some of our fellow posters here that put up some pretty good insight; Sylvanas decided to burn the tree because Afrasiabi is a POS and decided it would be fun to destroy some of our favorite female characters on the way out.
Because it doesnât make sense to burn Teldrassil, like you said. The original plan, at least as far as I can remember - is they wanted to use it and the people living there, as hostage. But then all of a sudden, Sylv said, âBURN IT!â in a way thatâs completely non-condusive with what her character has ever been up to that point. And her writing at this point was just constant ping-ponging; in a similar way to what had been done to Jaina. Like, super bi-polar, and I think itâs pretty obvious it was a âpresentâ for all of us left by Afrasiabi. As if being a trash human wasnât enough, I get the feeling he tried to trash as many of our female Warcraft characters as he could on the way out.
Because up until BFA, Sylvanas had never been written as someone that gives into her impulses. Iâm going to say she definitely could be seen as conniving, and at some points, even evil. But never impulsive. Cold, calculating⌠Considering what each action or movement would mean for her, or sometimes her people. That had always been Sylvanasâ game. To see her all of a sudden lash out, and act so petty over a Night Elf she was about to kill? Thatâs not Sylvanas.
It might almost sound like a conspiracy theory, but Iâm really starting to absorb what some of these posters here have suggested - that Afrasiabi decided to butcher as many female characters as he could, on the way out. Iâve already said that I donât think Danuser is a great fit for Warcraft - but even besides that, how do you even come back from that narrative black hole Afrasiabi shoved a bunch of characters into?
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Are you kidding??? The very first thing she does as a free undead is instead of trying to kill Arthas immediately she decided to torture/keep him alive long enough for Kel Thusad to free him.
When Garroshâs subordinate warned her about using the plague she just disregarded it(what, did she think defying Garrosh was going to just tolerate her disregarding her orders)
By Warcrimes when her sister decided not to go though with an assasination she went berserk and decided to go kill boars(it was at this time Golden mentioned the events in Warcrimes would define her future, and she was right, it wasnt going to end well for her)
Heck, as a living Sylvanas she told Arthas how to break the second Elf Gate(Arthas could have been monumentally delayed by the lack of this knowledge) instead she decided to taunt him.
And then we have to coup de grâce. She decided to MAKE A DEMON HER MAJORDOMO. Like that was not a red flag, it was red tapestry.
What?? Sylvanas ânever gave into her impulsesâ?? Is this a joke??
Literally the first thing she does as a free undead in WC3 is attempt to kill Arthas, which, as she herself openly admits in Shadowlands, was reckless and impulsive, as she had NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to judge and condemn Arthas. (as she openly admits in Shadowlands)
Not to mention how she tried to keep him alive for extra pain points out of petty arrogance, pride, and foolishness, when she could have just ended him right there.
The same psycho who then unalived herself because she didnât get to see Arthas get downed. Shame!!
She is literally such a spoiled, pompous, and arrogant character, acting solely based on emotions and impulses.
Xenophobic religious zealot humans are a dime a dozen in fantasy and sci-fi. They also tend to serve as an excuse for âthose typesâ to put Iron Crosses, Norse runes, and other less tolerated iconography on their armor and make things cringe.
We already have enough problems with the inherent racial supremacy vibes Human Potential⢠brings.
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I suppose the weirdos and racists will always ruin it for everyone else. Kinda a shame too, because the new Arathi Empire does look legitimately interesting
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From what we heard outside of game, the re-introduction of Calia in Legion reminded Christie Golden that Calia existed (perhaps with some help from YouTubers Taliesin and Evitel, who really glommed onto the character). Then, soon after that, Blizzard sent Golden the outline for the next novel, which included instructions to create some character who was raised into undeath by the Light but nothing about who that character should be.
Golden, recently reminded of Caliaâs existence, pitched the idea of making her the one who became the first Light Zombie. The folks at Blizzard liked the idea, and an abomination to the lore was born.
I donât even have to read the replies to know youâre going to get pushback on this one. But I think you do have a point. Iâd compromise by saying thatâs one more aspect of her that isnât consistent depending on whoâs writing her at any given moment.
We donât know for sure that this is what happened, but it is a tempting explanation that makes sense of a lot of things that otherwise seem irrational. Although, I donât know whether he went after Sylvanas because she was female or because she was a favorite of the person who helped trash his favorite character (Garrosh). Thatâs been another suggestion for the motive. It could even be both.
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Hahahaha, no kidding. Got both Zerde and Varodoc giving almost the same response, too. I feel like I scored some type of hidden bonus forum jackpot with that.
All glibness and jokes aside, though⌠And it could just be my own mind being a bit of an unreliable narrator: I donât really remember her being that impulsive up until later. Cruel and malicious, yes. Most of the time I felt it was purposeful though.
To be fair to both of them, I absolutely quit giving a F when it came to Shadowlands with her, though. I was well and thoroughly done with what theyâd done to her character at that point.
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In particular, I donât think the example of using blight in Gilneas is an example of impulsiveness. She heard Garroshâs order and had reasons for not following it that went beyond "But blight is so much fun!" or âDonât wanna conform, whee!â
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Her using the blight in Gilneas was more her sticking it to Garrosh intentionally. She even tells her advisor in gilneas that she heard the orders, and she intended on ignoring it. She knew he wanted the forsaken to break themselves trying to take gilneas, which everyone knew wasnât going to happen the traditional military way.
It read as the same move she pulled in Lordaeron If I canât have it, well, neither can you. But thatâs my take on it
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