Well, long is a subjective term. In this context it is certainly long enough to separate it from ANY association with the Warchief position.
Could be used for that assuming the Warchief accepted the fight. And the only time it was used to replace a Warchief was Blackhand, well before Thrall.
There was no Mak’gora even tangentially associated with Garrosh being deposed. So, you can’t even pretend it had anything to do with his removal.
Sylvanas won the Mak’gora. Saurfang’s sacrifice spared a lot of lives. But it is likely Sylvanas would have been deposed anyway. Most of the Horde turned against her and the Alliance was joining them. It wasn’t a case of the Mak’gora being the only way she would be removed. It was just the least cost in lives.
That is a childish and stupid comment.
First, I do play Horde toons. I just play more Alliance. I like to see both stories. You do understand we all pay to play the same game, right?
Second, the whole story effects all players experience too.
Thirdly, adults can have discussions about pro and cons of both sides without having to resort to childish partisan hate.
And that is a whole new level of dumb. Are you seriously suggesting there needs to be a written law somewhere stating that you are not supposed to violently rise up and depose your government? Seriously? Stop and think for even just a second about that and you should be able to see that in an untenable argument.
I think this is where I have to stop wasting my time with you. I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, even stretching a lot to do it. But you have removed all doubt. Clearly you are so biased and set in your way that you are unwilling and/or incapable of having a reasonable discussion.
One of the major problems on this is that it’s very much ‘too modern’ to try and fit the Horde into a fascist state framework. It’s a confederation of five largely independent nations with very different governments with a single leader confirmed between them. There’s even somewhat of an argument of inspiration from the Mongol Empire more then any of the fascist powers.
I mean, they’d be insane to do MoP 3, but they were insane to do MoP 2. Halfway convincing cases were made back in the day that they were insane to do MoP 1.
I played in the Beta so far and I had not seen a single Horde Character in the main story. Just mostly Anduin and Alleria. I mean they are cool but we need more characters besides just alliance like rexxar for example and other horde characters too.
“b-b-b-b-but blizzard allegedly is going to have midnight be a horde heavy expansion and they’re not using it to make quel’thalas alliance central!!”
yeah okay but we just had a decade of absolutely zero positive horde content. just hero characters being stupid and following dumb and/or evil leader characters and then immediately playing fifty sixth fiddle to the leading alliance characters.
Yea it’s true. It’s been mostly Alleria, Anduin, and Moria. Only got through 3 zones and near the end zone and so far none of the Horde Characters were apart of the story aside few character npcs.
Blizzard responded to those complaints. Basically they said this was just the first chapter of the first arc and people should be patient. They said they have thought carefully about both factions representation over the whole story and both sides will have equal representation.
Personally, I think that is a fair response. We don’t know what will happen in even just the patch cycle of this expansion. Certainly not over the full arc of the saga.
I think it is 100% fair to be concerned. After all they have certainly not had a great history of making sure content was equal in the past, though historically the issues were more often the other way (having more Horde content). So, given they have had issues with balance in the past, watching them is completely fair.
But we are VERY early in the story, so it would also be unfair to act as though it is wrapped up. So, not time for doom and gloom. It is entirely possible that this expac will even have more Horde story than Alliance by the time it is done. We really just don’t know from the opening patch.
In other words, keep and eye, but don’t make conclusions yet.
It think the idea of Midnight being Horde is mostly just player assumption. Blizzard has not directly said that. Their way of balancing it could just be that next patch is the Horde character story beats. Personally I hope that is the way it goes. Alternating patches is one thing, but I really don’t want alternating expacs. That would just ensure that everyone is frustrated.
I think it’s a pretty tonedeaf response, because these complaints aren’t happening in a vacuum. It actually made me a bit more soured on TWW’s prospects despite generally being hopeful that Undermine could be done justice.
The last few expansions have been wildly bad for the Horde story, and this line reads like “We’re not Garroshing the Horde again ;), wait until the story’s over”, and BFA/SL had “future” Horde content be the first things on the chopping block.
Even considering Alleria is being set up to be a major player and potential antagonist in this saga, and Anduin “totally had to be done justice right here right now”, there was really no meaningful space for any Horde characters to matter in the campaign?
Since the whole ‘song’ angle for Azeroth trying to communicate was added, I’ve been waiting for tauren especially to react to listening to the Earthmother’s voice - this setup fits their theme so perfectly. And they could really use some more focus in the story.
Maybe it’s my own bias as a horde partisan speaking but if there was more horde content in the past, it didn’t feel like it was leaning to the apparent extreme that TWW looks to be now, at least based on what’s come out of testing so far.
Did alliance lose out on content in MoP? Did the cinematic content of BFA revolve around Saurfang? Sure. The former at least had a neutral leveling campaign and the latter had split content, though. Sorry, but I don’t care how stony they are; the earthen are just a third flavor of dwarves and even if I wasn’t really into pandaren myself, earthen doesn’t feel as “contextually” neutral as they are. Nor am I enthusiastic about the Arathi either because that’s largely just a branch off of human story. Then there’s Anduin and Alleria.
I don’t mean to say those stories can’t exist but… there’s really not a lot to sink my own teeth into here, especially when the only known future content at the moment has to do with world tree roots named after Elune, and the hope that the Undermine name is tied to something other than some goblin raid you blow up.
And kobolds. They’re the one thing I’m genuinely interested in, even if they’re a joke race. I saw a screenshot of the shanty town they have built along a cliff face and want to see more of that. But that’s currently the only basket where I’ve got my eggs so far.
I feel like the Tauren/Trolls should be the pointmen for the parts of the expansion dealing with Azeroth herself like Alleria and the Velves will almost certainly be for the Void. Thrall too, but I feel like orcs, not being native to the planet, might be less attuned to the World-soul itself.
Though, I fear that Dagran is going to take that role, becuase who better to understand the planets cries than the Dwarves that regularly upset the land in ways even goblins don’t?
I re-did the Baine arc in DF last night with a friend after re-subbing and boy, I feel like that arc would have been better served as a leadin to the Tauren role in the upcoming saga rather than having a tribe relocate and get wrecked just so Baine could learn to be nicer to some centaur he’d never have to deal with if he wasn’t here for that particular story.
I was getting at if the Alliance wants to say the Horde is misreading it, it doesn’t matter. We’ve had a decade of net negative Horde content. The Alliance has not. The Alliance has been the star heroes for a decade.
Midnight is not soon enough.
Making TWW Alliance town to make up for “Midnight Horde” is a demonstrably objectively incorrect decision.
I think that splitting expacs into ‘this one Alliance, next one Horde, the one after that Alliance, and the next one after that Horde’ is a bad design in general, even if it was fairly split 50/50.
Both factions should be present and relevant in any given story. It may take some work to make a natural story for one side or the other, but that work is entirely worth it.
The last two expansions have had very little story for either faction. And the Horde had around the same lore as the Alliance over them. So, that is not a quantity/attention issue.
If you go back to BfA you can complain about what the story was. That is fair. But the Horde objectively got more story content than the Alliance. So this is also not a quantity based complaint.
While you may have very fair complaints about your feelings of the quality off Horde stories in the past, that is a VERY different discussion than if the Horde will get equal time in the World Soul Saga.
Says who? We literally have no idea what the next content patch is going to be. It might have vastly more connection to Horde characters. We could very well end up with it completely dominated by Horde characters.
Look at the Harronir. We barely meet them. They clearly have a ton planned for them. Where that goes is an open question. And there are so many ways it could be Horde dominated.
I think this highlights the thing that frustrates me most about these complaints.
Objectively we had Cata/MoP/BfA with significant and measurably more content. And Blizzard directly said they would NOT BE balancing it out by adding Alliance content.
Then there is a single patch that has more Alliance content than Horde. And Blizzard is saying the WILL BE balancing out the content by adding more Horde content.
And we have a lot of Horde players shrugging off the less Alliance content in the past and acting like TWW’s first patch is just the end and all doom and gloom.
Look, I get it. You don’t want to feel like you were left out. Sure, that is understandable. But, I don’t feel like the level of response is really justified.
They might be. I have a feeling we are going to see the Horde quite a bit in the patch we really start working with the Harronir. I could very easily see that being the Tauren taking the lead.
You haven’t been paying attention. The Alliance didn’t get out well. We can go back and forth all day about who had it worse. The Horde played the villain. The Alliance played the punching bag and got objectively less content. Who got it worse is subjective. But I really wish people would stop pretending that the ‘other side got it good.’
Again, we don’t know if Midnight will be a Horde dominated expac. We are only guessing at that.
For all you know TWW could be balanced with patches. Midnight could be basically ALL Horde and it could be the Alliance waiting out an entire expac for their turn in the Last Titan. Heck, it is even possible that TWW ends up Horde dominated. Maybe the Alliance gets the first patch and the Horde gets the rest of the patches.
I would agree.
Again it should be noted, it is PLAYERS that have decided that TWW is going to be all Alliance and Midnight is going to be all Horde. We don’t know what the rest of TWW is going to be, let alone Midnight.
If you really want to try and play the ‘last decade’ card:
Over the last decade Blizzard has created objectively more Horde story content than Alliance content. So, if there is any pattern to pull from that the expectation would be that Horde are likely to get more over the course of TWW and the rest of the saga.
Disregarding the Horde story, or calling it a “net negative” because youdidn’t like it doesn’t support the claim that the Horde got less. They didn’t.
I’ll be generous and start at MoP for the last decade arguement. That expansion involved horde players fighting for a evil/warmongering warchief and invading a foreign land, Warlords was a AU evil horde, Iron and eventually Fel at the endgame, Legion mostly favored the alliance in areas that mattered, could argue Highmountain and Suramar are horde content, but that doesn’t really count because they didn’t join the horde until after the expansion was already over, BfA was terrible all around for the story in general, SL again favored the alliance in the areas that mattered.
Dragonflight was probably the only truely neutral expac for the majority of it, until the last patch with Amdrissal and the Kaldorei.
But sure, I guess people can still believe the alliance has worse if they want. Guess some people still believe that