I like the new M+ change, It gives incentive to raid

Let’s be real. It’s disappointing where in BFA you did a heroic raid and you were getting only 460 ilvl gear. But on the other hand, those doing mythic + dungeons once a week were getting 475+ ilvl gear. Now for effectiveness, a raid which takes roughly 3 hours to go through was offering 460 ilvl loot. But a mythic + 15 dungeon done in 25 mins offered a higher reward at the end of the week for running it only once? Made no sense.

I think Blizzard came to their senses and they likely see what I see and everyone else sees. A huge disconnect in terms of what they did for time and reward. I like the new change and look forward to shadowlands.

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The incentive to raid was to get better options of loot and azerite gear which help to do higher M+ that was the incentive to raid over M+

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im not worried about the ilvl of the gear, i dislike the fact you only have a 20% chance of getting loot from end of the dungeon, which will slow people down gearing up. Only 1 item dropping at the end is a waste of time to anyone that doesnt get loot.

Why even bother having loot at the end of a dungeon if we have to wait till reset to get an item

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Let’s be real… haha
The change that is made doesn’t even target the weekly chest. Yet your entire argument is saying how completing one M+ 15 gives 475 loot…
It’s 1 random piece of loot… Once a week in a chest? That you have no control over that’s 475 item level. That could be useless weeks on end.
On top of that with the changes being made in Shadowlands, you can kill some raid bosses and get the same chance at the Weekly Chest as you would get from completing a M+ 15.
I can’t fathom how anyone could possibly argue that Heroic Raid should give higher item level than an M+ 15. A M+15 is significantly harder content. Heroic Raid becomes on farm for any competent player the week or a week after tops after it is released and allows you to target the gear.

If they really wanted to change how farming gear in M+ 15 there are alternative ways. Possibly being above a +10 - If you don’t time the key, you don’t get loot or some change like that. But reducing a M+ 15 End of Dungeon reward it below Heroic Raid level is unbelievably disappointing.

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Let’s be real… haha
The change that is made doesn’t even target the weekly chest. Yet your entire argument is saying how completing one M+ 15 gives 475 loot…
It’s 1 random piece of loot… Once a week in a chest? That you have no control over that’s 475 item level. That could be useless weeks on end.
On top of that with the changes being made in Shadowlands, you can kill some raid bosses and get the same chance at the Weekly Chest as you would get from completing a M+ 15.
I can’t fathom how anyone could possibly argue that Heroic Raid should give higher item level than an M+ 15. A M+15 is significantly harder content. Heroic Raid becomes on farm for any competent player the week or a week after tops after it is released and allows you to target the gear.

If they really wanted to change how farming gear in M+ 15 there are alternative ways. Possibly being above a +10 - If you don’t time the key, you don’t get loot or some change like that. But reducing a M+ 15 End of Dungeon reward it below Heroic Raid level is unbelievably disappointing.

I agree the original poster’s argument makes no sense; the M+ chest still gives mythic raid level loot, so that doesn’t increase the incentive to raid.

However, you are still incorrect here; in SL you can now do multiple M+15 or even M+14, and get a choice of multiple pieces of gear in your chest, so you now have some control over what you get.

I think you have to kill mythic raid bosses for that, which are harder than a +15. If you think you can get mythic raid gear for killing heroic raid bosses, a reference would be nice.

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You think that those who enjoy M+ as their endgame will go back to raiding once M+ is nerfed into irrelevancy ? nope

This will blow up in blizzard’s face huge, like so many SL development decisions. Like the GCD change, AOE capping changes and class/spec utility changes, these newest changes are just a head scratcher.

It seems that those who enjoy M+ as their endgame need to find a new game to play once SL comes.

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I got AOTC the second week of 8.3 havent been to a heroic raid since. Heroic raiding is for lowbie and new people. This is a stupid change. M15 is so much harder than any boss in Nyalotha. Now my guild will have to do Heroic raids instead of a quick M15 to get gear. Heroic raids take too long with trash and boss after boss.

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The fact that blizzard wants to force people to raid lets you know how popular raiding is. Everyone I know would rather M+ than raid minus 1 person.

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I bet I spent more time in M+ than you did in raids this expansion.

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M+ is so much more fun than raiding. I would totally rather push keys than raid.

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I really don’t enjoy Mythic raiding.
I really don’t enjoy being overlooked because somebody is 482 equiped whilst I’m 475.

How ever I perform well enough to be added to Btag and re-invited later on and just put up with being a little weaker for the 20-23 keys I do.
:man_shrugging:

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So is relying on M+ end of dungeon drops.

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So if those players are relying on that gear, what benefit is there to nerfing it? It’s impacting them more than the skilled players who can clear heroic raids well below the average ilvl.

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All the insufferable snobs I know that grind mythics all week and treat ppl like trash are freaking out right now and I love it :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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This is going to hurt people raiding heroic just as much as it is people who only do M+

You’re not going to be able to trade any of the gear that drops in your heroic raids for weeks because it will be slightly higher ilvl than the M+ gear everyone is wearing. It’s going to take you a lot longer to gear up your raid as a result, for no real reason at all.

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Yet, another decision made because a small number of people can’t just play the game and let it go.

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People who are raiding Heroic aren’t doing +15s anyway, so any end of dungeon gear they get from M+ is already lower than Heroic raid gear.

The only change from the standpoint of Heroic raiders is that it will be easier to find and make groups because people who prefer raiding won’t be forced into M+.

I doubt it will stop raiders from going there. With a few exceptions, you don’t gear up quickly from raiding. There will be tons of players grinding for weapons and trinkets that they didn’t get from raid, and they’re gonna be doubly aggravated that they can’t get raid drops and the m+ gear is inferior.

It’ll be the same players who complained that raids as the best source of gear and that raiding is life. And then the new Ra-den won’t drop their slappers and they’ll say that raid drops sucks and that there should be another way to get equal gear and Blizzard will revert the recent ilvl reduction and then the week after we’ll start the whole dos-si-do again with someone complaining about m+ loot.

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Except the helmet, shoulders and chest are going back to the token system so it will be easier. LIke back in WOTLK where a token is spread across 3 classes . For instance a token will say “rogue/mage/paladin” and so on. So it will be easy still to gear people up.