I got something completely different from this: Anduin doesn’t believe he can win, so he has to turn to Saurfang for help.
I can't take Anduin's character seriously, therefore I don't care a whole lot about what he says or does. How does a 17yo boy, hush the King of Gilneas, ah my brain hurts thinking about it.
Sounds to me less like Saurfang is a pawn, and more like the savior of the Horde, and the Alliance.
I haven't even gotten to that part yet! I'm still stuck on
"Anduin, I hoped you would stop her". Like can we address the elephant in the room before moving on.
if saurfang was hoping that anduin would stop her why he didn't warned anduin about the blight trap that he walk into?
didn't he stayed behind because he was done with the horde and intended to die after seeing the trap?
11/03/2018 12:23 AMPosted by
Sarîa Vol'jin, Sylvanas, and Lor'Thamar stood up to Garrosh and Vol'jin went as far as threaten to kill him. Saurfang did nothing.
Neither of these clowns did jack !@#$ until the Alliance offered to help them lol. Also, Lor'themar was begging Varian for help
11/03/2018 03:18 AMPosted by
Treng I haven't even gotten to that part yet! I'm still stuck on "Anduin, I hoped you would stop her". Like can we address the elephant in the room before moving on.
11/02/2018 01:57 PMPosted by
Treng Saurfang made the decision that Sylvanas had to be stopped when she mass murdered, mass enslaved, and mass damned the souls of the Horde to suit her needs as her eternal slave-soldiers. He didn't know she would go that far, and then she did. He couldn't kill her and her army by himself.
But Anduin's entire army, and his demi goddess wizard sorceress, had a chance.
I totally get it.
1st check your sequence of events.
2nd nothing you've said excuses Saurfang. If he's so willing to die for the Horde why not use that death versus Sylvanas? Hoping and wishing that Anduin would defeat the Horde is a disgrace.
if saurfang was hoping that anduin would stop her why he didn't warned anduin about the blight trap that he walk into?
didn't he stayed behind because he was done with the horde and intended to die after seeing the trap?
Yes. I agree.
At the end of the BoL cutscene when he is hauled away... Anduin says: "when I return."
And Saurfang intones ominously and smuggly: "If you return." In a sneer, because he knows they are walking into a trap.
To see Suarfang NOW say: "I never meant to hurt you, I want you to be safe, and I hoped you can stop Sylvanas" is... as bad as I predicted.
And Saurfang intones ominously and smuggly: "If you return." In a sneer, because he knows they are walking into a trap.
To see Suarfang NOW say: "I never meant to hurt you, I want you to be safe, and I hoped you can stop Sylvanas" is... as bad as I predicted.
So he spares him hoping that he would stop her.
but then chooses to not tell him about the obvious trap
maybe he thinks that the death of anduin actually increases the chances?
then why he didn't kill him before?
why he didn't kill him in the cell?
or maybe not telling about the trap was some kind of act of loyalty?
but then why he was hoping for anduin to win?
what the hell does he wants?
i am so confused.
If Anduin did stop Sylvanas what condition did he expect “his” Horde to be in afterward anyway. Back to the internment camps. He is pathetic.
Well, that is how >his< Horde got its start. Maybe he thinks if they end up in internment camps again, they'll get another biblical savior and a whole new undiscovered continent to colonize.
To see Suarfang NOW say: "I never meant to hurt you, I want you to be safe, and I hoped you can stop Sylvanas" is... as bad as I predicted.
Hadn't even looked at it that closely, but you're right it doesn't make sense. I think with a development this bad and undeserved that you don't need to nitpick the horrid little details.
if saurfang was hoping that anduin would stop her why he didn't warned anduin about the blight trap that he walk into?
didn't he stayed behind because he was done with the horde and intended to die after seeing the trap?
Yes. I agree.
At the end of the BoL cutscene when he is hauled away... Anduin says: "when I return."
And Saurfang intones ominously and smuggly: "If you return." In a sneer, because he knows they are walking into a trap.
To see Suarfang NOW say: "I never meant to hurt you, I want you to be safe, and I hoped you can stop Sylvanas" is... as bad as I predicted.
I'm completely befuddled by his logic and decisions. Horde soldiers are being slaughtered by the Alliance but its okay because he wants Anduin to stop Sylvanas.
I mean it was Saurfang who said
"They will come for us all". I really want to talk about the Battle for Lordaeron and PTR implications and how this give the scenarios a new light, but I can't get pass this diabolic logic and disgrace.
another question, if saurfang was so much against sylvanas in teldrassil why he didn't cut her !@#$ing head off if he knows that he can't win in makgora?
just, kill her, offer her to the alliance and done, if that was his intention this war would have already stopped, probably.
As far as the blatant inconsistency between Saurfang's attitude and actions during Lordraeon and now are concerned, I could probably give a good justification for it.
Saurfang likely didn't really know why he spared Anduin with his strike. At the time he was focused on his death and filled with all kinds of emotions, and when he went down he was still very much in the warrior mindset of hoping to see Anduin and the Alliance fail.
It was only through introspection in his cell that he came to the conclusion that he wasn't fighting as hard as he could because a part of him was hoping that Anduin would win the battle, end Sylvanas, and that the Horde would be free from her influence.
This doesn't seem far fetched to me. People are hypocritical and contradictory by nature, and we rarely fully understand our own motivations when we're emotionally compromised like Saurfang has been for a while now.
Of course that's just how I'd write it. The more likely reason is that Blizzard is bad at coordinating their writing teams.
another question, if saurfang was so much against sylvanas in teldrassil why he didn't cut her !@#$ing head off if he knows that he can't win in makgora?
just, kill her, offer her to the alliance and done, if that was his intention this war would have already stopped, probably.
Its dishonorable to gank her from behind. Human potential is completely acceptable and is actually recommended by Saurfang tho.
Edit:
11/03/2018 04:08 AMPosted by
Kisin It was only through introspection in his cell that he came to the conclusion that he wasn't fighting as hard as he could because a part of him was hoping that Anduin would win the battle, end Sylvanas, and that the Horde would be free from her influence.
Fine and dandy if the Alliance would just kill Sylvanas and those loyal to her, alas the Alliance isn't going around the battle field interviewing Horde soldiers.
Let's say Saurfang Mak'gora'd Sylvanas and somehow killed her.
Then what?
The Forsaken are just gonna remain loyal to the him? He'd have created a massive division within the Horde. He'd have killed a fellow racial leader and sewn distrust among her supporters, including the people that believe Vol'jin's prophecy.
But if she dies in the middle of combat to enemy forces, Saurfang can easily slide into her place and lead the Horde from there.
11/03/2018 04:58 AMPosted by
Yagarr But if she dies in the middle of combat to enemy forces, Saurfang can easily slide into her place and lead the Horde from there.
This is the kind of logic that we'd expect from Sylvanas. Unfortunately "it was a dishonorable blow" Saurfang has effectively disqualified himself from being sneaky or sacrificing an entire Horde army for the greater good.
Really? Is that what he really hoped? Does Saurfang character get any more pathetic than this?
1st it was Dishonorable Blow
2nd it was sparing Anduin
3rd it was deciding to live in Stormwind
4th actively becomes a traitor
5th kills Horde troops
Talk about a fall from grace. His character is a disgrace and embarrassment to all true Horde warriors.
Still a better person than a literal child murderer, just saiyan.
(Yes, I'm aware Saurfang has done that before too, but he still regrets it and actually works to try to be a better person, whereas Sylvanas has coldhearted disregard for the suffering she causes others.)
11/03/2018 05:03 AMPosted by
Roghter 11/03/2018 04:58 AMPosted by
Yagarr But if she dies in the middle of combat to enemy forces, Saurfang can easily slide into her place and lead the Horde from there.
This is the kind of logic that we'd expect from Sylvanas. Unfortunately "it was a dishonorable blow" Saurfang has effectively disqualified himself from being sneaky or sacrificing an entire Horde army for the greater good.
But Saurfang's always been pragmatic. "Dishonorable blow" was a an out of character, very bad plot device to get him to spare Malfurion. In
A Good War he actually uses siege equipment to kill Night Elves from afar. How is that any more dishonorable than throwing his axe at someone's back?
He also wasn't trying to sacrifice the Horde's army. He was in favor of rescuing the soldiers Sylvanas blighted. He was specifically hoping ONE person would die in that battle.
Really? Is that what he really hoped? Does Saurfang character get any more pathetic than this?
1st it was Dishonorable Blow
2nd it was sparing Anduin
3rd it was deciding to live in Stormwind
4th actively becomes a traitor
5th kills Horde troops
Talk about a fall from grace. His character is a disgrace and embarrassment to all true Horde warriors.
Still a better person than a literal child murderer, just saiyan.
Saurfang is explicitly also a child murderer. He straight up admits to killing Draenei children during a conversation in Wrath and implies that he also butchered Orc children in the blood rage.
So I get what you’re saying, but if child murder is a threshold you can never come back from then Saurfang is already across that line. If there’s no atoning for genocide, then no Orc veteran of his kind is redeemable.
Edit: Missed your edit, lol.
Saurfang is explicitly also a child murderer. He straight up admits to killing Draenei children during a conversation in Wrath and implies that he also butchered Orc children in the blood rage.
So I get what you’re saying, but if child murder is a threshold you can never come back from then Saurfang is already across that line. If there’s no atoning for genocide, then no Orc veteran of his kind is redeemable.
No.
Saurfang isn't comfortable with murdering children. Under some magical curse he did do it, but unlike Sylvanas, that doesn't depict who he is currently.
The point of redemption is that people can change and come to view their past actions or beliefs sincerely as the "wrong" option.
Saurfang is explicitly also a child murderer. He straight up admits to killing Draenei children during a conversation in Wrath and implies that he also butchered Orc children in the blood rage.
So I get what you’re saying, but if child murder is a threshold you can never come back from then Saurfang is already across that line. If there’s no atoning for genocide, then no Orc veteran of his kind is redeemable.
Edit: Missed your edit, lol.
I think it highlights that I think Blizzard has done a good job of making Saurfang sympathetic to me, despite him committing such acts.
They haven't done so with Sylvanas to me, that anyone finds her anything beyond an enjoyable villainous character is baffling to me. I don't really see the substance in her that other people see, not even before Cataclysm, but that is just my opinion.
Quite frankly if a redemption for Sylvanas is the end goal they're going with to try to have some "twist" and avoid MoP 2.0, it inevitably will look hollow to a very good number of players.