I hear ppl say to go horde for pvp

[Destrian-arygos (Destrian)]

I always WPVPed on a PVE server in vanilla. Alliance usually won. Never even set foot in a BG til I was 60. When I finally tried it, I got into AB where the alliance 5 capped it and it was over in 2 minutes. I was thinking this is stupid and went back to WPVPing.

[Vaenz-tichondrius]

@Espure-proudmoore

You’ve got it backwards. The Horde racials are vastly superior for PvP, but weak in PvE. The Alliance have stronger PvE racials but more situational PvP racials. Sword Specialization and Expansive Mind are the two best racials for melee and casters respectively.

Nah, Alliance racials cover inherent class weaknesses far better than their Horde counterparts. Exception given to maybe Rogues, but definitely Warlocks.

Gnome’s hands down the best race for Mage/Warrior.
Dwarf the best race for Priests and a case can be made for Rogues (since SF reliably clears most things in the game that could prevent a clean reset).
Night Elf the best race for Hunters (well-timed DD > meld totally negating openers or large CD abilities).

Like the one class that I think is objectively better as Horde is Warlocks, and that’s because the passive stun resistance covers what they’re most susceptible to.

[Curt-gurubashi (Curt)]

Only few people realized alliance has better pvp racials. Most think wotf and hardiness are best. From days where people didn’t know how to pvp and never bothered interrupting fear.

While alliance racials are actually better in pvp.

[Espure-proudmoore (Espure)]

@Vaenz-tichondrius

Nah, Alliance racials cover inherent class weaknesses far better than their Horde counterparts. Exception given to maybe Rogues, but definitely Warlocks.

Gnome’s hands down the best race for Mage/Warrior.
Dwarf the best race for Priests and a case can be made for Rogues (since SF reliably clears most things in the game that could prevent a clean reset).
Night Elf the best race for Hunters (well-timed DD > meld totally negating openers or large CD abilities).

Like the one class that I think is objectively better as Horde is Warlocks, and that’s because the passive stun resistance covers what they’re most susceptible to.

And if you’re playing a Gnome Warlock to cover the lack of slow removal, you’re going to go up against Undead everything which shuts you down.

Feign Death → Shadowmeld can stop a cast, but that isn’t the same thing as resisting a stun (which lets you keep kiting). You’re definitely underrating WotF and Hardiness.

[Espure-proudmoore (Espure)]

@Curt-gurubashi

Only few people realized alliance has better pvp racials. Most think wotf and hardiness are best. From days where people didn’t know how to pvp and never bothered interrupting fear.

While alliance racials are actually better in pvp.

They’re flexible, but situational. WotF shuts down several classes and Hardiness gives an element to resist the most potent form of CC.

Hard to interrupt a cast when you’re a melee and at range. Not to mention if it’s a Destro Lock that Seduces you and then nukes you.

[Curt-gurubashi (Curt)]

Why in God’s name would you fear vs warlock who can use felpup to cleanse it lol.

Not to mention range fear requires, you’ll be burned down before you get into fear range.

Most players were really bad at pvp.

[Vaenz-tichondrius]

@Espure-proudmoore

And if you’re playing a Gnome Warlock to cover the lack of slow removal, you’re going to go up against Undead everything which shuts you down.

Feign Death -> Shadowmeld can stop a cast, but that isn’t the same thing as resisting a stun (which lets you keep kiting). You’re definitely underrating WotF and Hardiness

WotF isn’t as strong as most people seem to think it is, especially if you’re an engineer. Not sure what you’re worried about getting stunned by as a Hunter. Rogues and Warriors are both laughably easy 1v1s that shouldn’t ever touch you outside of the opener, and even then you can FD > meld a lot more than just spells since it functions like vanish. Used it to deny blinds, kidneys, etc.

[Espure-proudmoore (Espure)]

@Curt-gurubashi

Why in God’s name would you fear vs warlock who can use felpup to cleanse it lol.

Not to mention range fear requires, you’ll be burned down before you get into fear range.

Most players were really bad at pvp.

Where did I say fear a warlock?

@Vaenz-tichondrius

@Espure-proudmoore

And if you’re playing a Gnome Warlock to cover the lack of slow removal, you’re going to go up against Undead everything which shuts you down.

Feign Death -> Shadowmeld can stop a cast, but that isn’t the same thing as resisting a stun (which lets you keep kiting). You’re definitely underrating WotF and Hardiness

WotF isn’t as strong as most people seem to think it is, especially if you’re an engineer. Not sure what you’re worried about getting stunned by as a Hunter. Rogues and Warriors are both laughably easy 1v1s that shouldn’t ever touch you outside of the opener, and even then you can FD > meld a lot more than just spells since it functions like vanish. Used it to deny blinds, kidneys, etc.

Paladin running at you with HoF and HoJ. You can still prep a Frost Trap or FD → drop it, but they can get to you. Honestly though the only class that should give you trouble if you’re good is Warlock. Even then, resisting a charge stun can be even bigger.

[Slaanesh-emerald-dream (Slaanesh)]

Cool guys. Well, dang, I feel like I got a pretty big avalanche of info about that, and a lot of entertainment watching some of you fight about racials so…cool.

[Galbados-twisting-nether]

@Livinshadow-skullcrusher

Alliance racials are probably better at pvp then pve and opposite with horde better pve then pvp.

Yup, that’s why when Arenas were introduced in TBC, UD Spriest /UD Afflic Lock, UD Disc Priest / UD Rogue, UD Spriest / UD Rogue, and UD Frost Mage / UD Rogue, weren’t all top tier Glad viable comps.

It had NOTHING to do with WotF, right? Right?

[Pacioli-turalyon]

Horde has some great PVP racial abilities. So a lot of better PVP players will end up rolling Horde.

On the beta a lot of the higher end PVP players rolled Horde though so it certainly looks a lot worse than it will be once things get more saturated in bigger pools of cross realm BGs and EU / NA being split. A lot of factors that boil down to not using the beta to really judge how things will go on live.

[Squirtlejuic-tichondrius]

Plus due to the fact the racials attracted more pvp orientated players

[Rubmyhorns-bleeding-hollow]

Some of you guys are forgetting the one racial to rule them all: (holy) paladin.

[Shocknyou-arthas (Shocknyou)]

@Slaanesh-emerald-dream

Are hordies just more interested in pvp on average?

I can break the entire situation down for you…

Horde:

Orc racial hardiness (Best pvp racial in the game)
Undead WotF (2nd best pvp racial in the game)
Tauren Warstomp (elemental shaman combo’s possible / all classes interupt)

Alliance:

Gnome escape artist (really good racial for warriors/rogues)
Night Elf shadowmeld (Good for hunters camping flags, cheezy warriors get free charge sometimes w/it)
Human perception (pretty meh overall, situational at best, hardly useful though)
Dwarf stoneskin (most gamebreaking racial in game for rogues vs rogues, breaks blind/clears bleeds; also good for hunters to escape rogues)

I didn’t forget trolls. They suck. Not a PvP choice at all.

The reason people play horde for PvP is because the racials are way better for PvP and offer a situational advantage many times. Alternatively, however, Alliance have Paladins. Paladins are the best PvP healers and blessing of freedom/sac/bop are the best PvP spells in the game.

Also, since people roll Horde because of racials for PvP they typically win in PuG battlegrounds. Alliance in those battlegrounds are sightseeing alot of the time and aren’t PvP as priority (instead PvE).

That is about as simple as I can put it. If you want, I can tell you what race is best per class in PvP and the pros/cons for each.

[Alsoria-stormrage]

Anyone with a brain will state the truth: generally people roll Horde for racials.

Horde players have this delusion they’re automatically the best pvpers. It’s why they rage more when they lose a BG or a duel. Always fun to sit in a Horde vent and listening to the tears flowing. Great salt mines.

Even better is watching an UD use WotF and still getting owned. For the best players the racials compliment their playstyles. For the bad players they need those racials to make them competitive.

[Galbados-twisting-nether]

@Curt-gurubashi

Why in God’s name would you fear vs warlock who can use felpup to cleanse it lol.

Interrupt them casting a spell while your pups devour magic is on CD.

You don’t PvP much do you?

[Galbados-twisting-nether]

@Curt-gurubashi

Only few people realized alliance has better pvp racials. Most think wotf and hardiness are best. From days where people didn’t know how to pvp and never bothered interrupting fear.

While alliance racials are actually better in pvp.

Nice examples, painting with that broad stroke there. Also people knew how to interrupt spells in vanilla. I wasn’t even great by most standards, and I made it my pride to interrupt whenever I could. It was the only way to hopefully pull off a win. Its not like it was rocket science.

[Beertaster-bleeding-hollow]

Trolls and Undead priests have the best pvp class racials.

Undead - Devouring plague is an extra instant cast DoT that steals hp. Classified as a disease.

Troll - Shadow gaurd - 10 min instacast buff that procs BLACK OUT.

Troll - Hex of Weakness - reduces damage and HEALING. Stacks with Touch of Weakness and Curse of Weakness. Cannot be dispelled considered a curse. Mana efficient, usefull on all targets. Even rank 1 is effective against healers.

[Menopawzz-area-52]

Have you read any of the books?

[Curt-gurubashi (Curt)]

People sucked back then, and they still do. I guarantee very few know the right strategy vs various classes.

1/1000 warriors knows how to break frost trap without trinkets
1/1000 mages knows how to avoid fear
1/1000 knows how to drain shadow priest

People just suck at pvp, and it won’t change. I know more about pvp than most on this board. Not a very useful skill, but fun to brag.