I blame blizzard for this, when a character cries about honor and glory but ignores his own morals and standards. This is classic blizzard villain batting.
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Alliance couldn’t wipe the Horde out if they tried, anyway. It’s kind of the point. No side will ever completely beat the other yet we can’t just get along because the leaders are absolutely braindead reactionary mongrels.
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Why can’t the player character be a free agent like in so many other games?
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It would certainly be nice if they realized there were other people than humans, orcs, and whoever they have a thing for; which, right now, is super mega ultra cool super pretty never wrong super smart and totally likes me Sylvanas.
I do know if that’s actually what happens? If their idea of resolution to this story amounts to “No, you get to stay in [pseudo] hell because the thing you risked your life for to save your people is going to kill you after it didn’t actually help you”?
Then I will, on the record, state that my answer to “Would you recommend Blizzard games to anyone else” will be “No”. And those aren’t empty words. A lot of people I know from D&D, and they might be interested in the story. I can’t take the risk that they might roll a race that isn’t Blizzard’s favorite, and then just have to sit around and watch other people do things.
The disconnect in what players want and what’s being offered is farcical. I mean, fine, sure, you wipe out Teldrassil, you wipe out Darkshore, you say on the record that most of the night elf population is dead. You have refugees in Stormwind (which would be a nice touch if it weren’t, you know…ghoulish). You promise that the night elves will get back. You have their leader - someone who’s been around longer than Sylvanas, if memory serves - literally risk her life to become the avatar of justice for her people. And she gets stopped by a guy with a bow. Yes, sure, Nathanos is really good with the bow, but this is Tyrande-I-created-the-Sentinels Whisperwind. In a forest. While embodying the vengeance of her people. And is unsuccessful at first, then given lip service to winning after the fact. Then you say something like “her story will continue”, and your idea of a resolution to that is that she ends up with nothing? And not even because of any kind of self-sacrifice, but because she can’t handle the power she has? The Chose of Elune can’t handle Elune’s power?
What the hell kind of message does that send? “We can stop your vengeance, you get nothing, and we’re going to kill you for trying”. No, I can’t in good conscience recommend these games to new players. Not if it’s that.
I’m not in the alpha, and I know I’m not particularly influential within the WoW community. So, I might have completely misinterpreted what happens. But…no, this isn’t right.
Also, just in general, let’s try to remember this is a thread about the story of night elves, yes?
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That’s why whenever my group asks about it (since I’m usually soloing old raids or something while we wait on everyone to gather), I always tell them right out of the gate that the story is hot garbage (and the gameplay always veers either way too far into grinding, or way too far into RNG… or both). And when they ask me why I still play, all I really have is the fact that I’ve played this game longer than I’ve known most people, and I like the vanity knick-knacks, like mounts, pets, and mogs.
There is literally no resolution people will be happy with. She’s not going to annihilate the Horde, she’s not going to go kill Sylvanas herself, she’s not going to do any of that because anything involving killing villains is something -we- will do as players. Sure she may help, but she’s not going to go solo everything like Nelf players want her to.
My money is on her not dying, but being used as a parable about how revenge is a fool’s game. But- this is with me wishfully hoping Sylvanas does indeed die regardless.
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I still play because of the people that I have met and become friends with. They’ve helped me through some tough times. It’s not something you can easily throw away by quitting.
Yeah, I could still keep in touch, but it’s just not the same.
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I understand that completely. I mean, I like the gameplay, but I know I’m a bit different than most, and I tend to make my own stories even when questing. It’s not uncommon for me to talk in character to quest givers even when no one’s around.
But I wouldn’t thrust that on anyone else. I DM a lot, so if this is the case? I can’t ask people to try something out that they’re not going to enjoy from a story perspective. Not in an RPG.
One of my characters has Really Sticky Glue. I have a Bag of Marbles and a Holy Mightstone. There’s nostalgia, there.
I don’t know. There’s more than one way to handle things. Most of the big kills haven’t been at the hands of players. Take the Nighthold, with Gul’dan 2: Gul’dandier. We laid the smack-down, but at the end, it was Thrillidan who took him down (in one of the most effective cut-scenes they would have done if Illidan had just kept his damn mouth shut.
You know what my secret hope is, actually? Like, the kind of thing that I know won’t happen, but want to? I want…I want Sylvanas to be in a situation where with the entire world after her, she’s kind of at a disadvantage. Then, she calls out to one of those raised kaldorei to try to get in Tyrande’s head, gives them a command. They look at her, then look at Tyrande and turn on Sylvanas. The whole thing was a set-up, because night elves do not play, and they would willingly lay down their lives for their people and forests.
But, to your point? They could fairly easily have the same thing that usually happens with big lore characters. We do all the heavy work, then some NPC comes up and steals the victory. I’d like to see her get pushed down into that hell she’s been avoiding, and I’d be okay with Sylvanas, or Genn, or any of the people who she’s wronged be the one to lock the gate or kick her in, or whatever.
Actually, you know what I also would want to see? I would love to see her realize that where she had thought she would end up? Yeah, that was a warning that if she didn’t change her ways (because she was not a good person, even back in Wrath) that she would end up there. Like that’s the message the val’kyr had been trying to give her. One of them sacrificed herself because they thought Sylvanas could be a force for good if she really wanted to. Like, if she had chilled on the “Blink-Blight-Bye” approach she had to everything, she could have ended up somewhere peaceful. Just the look on Sylvanas’ face when she realized that she had been wrong, this whole time. Dead wrong. And wasted her unlife on something that she could have stopped at any time. Burned all those bridges for no reason at all.
Or just have her get turned to dust by Azshara, who would say something like “I was kaldorei, too, you lowborn zombie firebug”. Maybe some combination of all three.
Heh.
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I don’t see Sylvanas being killed in the same way as Garrosh or that we’ll even see her as a loot piñata. I mean if we can fight Jaina and still somehow she survives, same goes for Syl, but I don’t see it happening where we deliver the coup de gras.
They are leaving Tyrande’s vengeance arc open to show a parallel between the two as similar to the Lich King vs. Sylvanas. The circle will become complete when Tyrande delivers the fatal blow to Sylvanas after she shows us the “next” enemy. That or the blade Xal’atath will make another appearance and she’ll be sealed away. Like Aizen from Bleach… lol
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God I’d hate if Sylvanas ever got something that turned her into a walking Mary Sue to the point all we could do was seal her away. It only worked in Bleach because shonen fighting animes are basically power up arms races to begin with.
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I can’t stand Tyrande as a character, she and Malfurion have been the Martian Manhunter of WoW since forever but that particular scene was absurdly stupid. After all that buildup Tyrande should have thrown Nathanos into the sun (and good riddance).
This is the best encapsulation I have seen as to how WoW’s writing is currently progressing.
The bfa story sucked for nelves, but I legit wonder if part of the nelf fan hatred for the story is partially spurred on by them not being on a pedestal above most other races anymore.
I get that the story sucked but most notable pro nelf story fans are incredibly rude and dismissive to horde posters who have similar concerns so i can’t be too empathetic.
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I see rather the opposite. Many Horde fans are still upset that the Night Elves were able to hold back the Horde with most of their army away during the War of the Thorns, and that the Night Elves won Darkshore back with just the help of the Gilneans against five races of the Horde that were now on Kalimdor.
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You can’t be serious. We haven’t been that since WC3. It’s literally the unanswered genocide that the Horde and Sylvanas escaped any consequences for that’s our problem.
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“We want tyrande to avoid any consequences for her actions during the dumb bfa story but horde players should be punished for the dumb bfa story”
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What actions? The laughable thing Blizzard called Night Elves’ vengeance? Seriously, enlighten me.
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The only thing that happened during BfA that Tyrande should feel bad for is having spared Belmont after having complained about having spared Saurfang.
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I think you mean that most Horde fans are upset that the combined might of their army was written as just barely enough to overcome the Night Elves, they were defeated anyway in Darkshore, and then Nelf fans howl that they’ve been disrespected and demand more, more, and more.
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I think it’s more the fact that the Nelves got genocided to advance Sylvanas’ and Saurfang’s arcs, then relegated to side plot in 8.1 where they canonically win to retain one of their last zones (Wow!) I guess they should thank Blizz for not losing literally all of their land, else they would have been renamed ‘‘Stormwind purple elves’’
It’s not a lot to be proud about.
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