I get the "no changes" crowd, but there WERE changes, so why wasn't class balance one of the changes?

If you go deep enough into balance for the moonkin talent, you are a moonkin. You pretty much decided your playstyle at that point.

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You realize that if you change the balance, the meta slaves will still just follow the new meta and enforce it, right? Let’s say druids are now better in dungeons than mages. Now they’ll just kick all the mages because that’s what being a meta slave is. And imo you couldn’t possibly balance it all out without enforcing spec identity over class identity, which is what you got after Classic.

I suggest you start your own groups instead, with blackjack and other sorts of stuff…

Because those changes happened during Vanilla. Further changes that people are asking for didn’t happen in Vanilla.

It really is that simple.

I think there is a world of difference between technical issues and game mechanics when it comes to player experience.

Layering was introduced with the knowledge that the game would be inundated with people wanting to see what classic was like. They know that a lot of those people won’t be around long term, so they need a solution to support an over inflated population for some period of time. Remember layering is going to be removed. It is simply a load balancing tool.

Changing the class abilities etc is a completely different issue. It’s long term for one, changes the core Vanilla experience, would be extremely difficult to do without then changing a bunch of other things. It’s the can of worms that would likely have ruined the experience.

I think you need to decouple layering from making changes to the game.

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Its weird that you’re still crying about this after a year. Once again… is it possible you dont want to play classic? You want a new mmo, which isnt the point of classic. Leather up and accept it

Some people wanted nochanges. Most people actually did want changes, but not many people follow games that closely until they can actually play them. And lots of people play the game anyways if enough hype surrounds it.

Not balancing classes and retuning dungeons is a huge mistake. Also not adding new dungeon/raid content down the road is also a mistake.

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Exactly.

Classic fans: “No changes.”
Blizzard: “We’re changing some things.”
Classic fans: “We don’t like that.”
Pro-changers: “Well, we already have some changes, so let’s add more changes!”

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This was the main thing.

Since there isnt a lot of distinction or unique spells between specs, it makes more logical sense to have your hybrid utility classes double as a healer and bring real dps classes (and warriors since they get to be the best at everything).

Yes the shaman brings awesome buffs, but why bring the weak dps shaman with awesome buffs when we can bring the healer shaman and also get the same awesome buffs?

It is what it is, its classic and shouldnt be changed.

Layering is done to re-create the Vanilla experience. Ion said that each layer holds as many players as the MAX a realm could hold back in Vanilla 1.12. So WITH layers, you have the same number of players in your layer as you did in Classic. What’s wrong with that?

That clearly has nothing to do with “class balance”, by which you mean “re-design every single class, spec, talent and gear item in the entire game”. That would give us a game DIFFERENT than Vanila.

The criteria is not “what is most important”. The criteria is “how can we reproduce the gameplay of Vanilla WoW”. That’s it.

Every class is playable, in some role at least, and I think that’s good enough. If you’re playing with people who only want to bring the absolute meta, sure you can only play one of a select few classes. But if you play with a more casual crowd you’ll realize that the other classes are still playable. They’re just not as good.

That being said, the “hybrid tax” actually does make sense. Not in raid maybe, but if a Ret pally and warrior did the same dps, the ret pally would be busted because of their off healing.

You can also look to look retail for why these changes aren’t dire. The classes are not remotely balanced on live. There’s almost no reason to bring a healer to raid that’s not a paladin or disc priest. There are always top tier dps classes. It’s nit a sign of a broken game.

Lol, this is rose colored glasses at its best. 1 warlock for curse of elements and 1 pally to run the debuff sword or w/e if was isn’t balance. It’s pathetic.

That’s not what the raid comp was for the hard core progression guild I was in. We had 2 locks (wanted more, but they were hard to come by) and 3 paladins. Heck, we had 4 hunters and 3 druids.

To each their own though…

That defeats the point of classic. I dont know how you dont understand that

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Form your own group, it really is that easy. If you complain about other groups not wanting your chosen class, the best option is to put one together yourself. There are plenty of players who will join you.

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TLDR; I rolled a druid played too many levels in and found out they suck. #ChangesForMe #BalanceMySuckyClass #IDidNotDoEnoughClassResearchBeforeRolling #Metoo

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Hello OP’s alt.

it’s completely about layering, and using the layering tears to try and whine your way into other changes.

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#NoChanges means No Changes. We asked for Vanilla WoW with warts and all, and that’s what we got.

Broken class balance, literal unfinished specs, faceroll easy raids and dungeons, bad itemization, etc.

If you don’t like it then I recommend you try retail or wait until TBC.

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Not sure what version of Classic you’re playing, but we got NOTHING like real Vanilla. Otherwise we would have started at patch 1.1 (the client version at release) and then would have gotten each of the bug fixes, patches as they were released in Vanilla (meaning we would have had all the bugs that were in 1.1 until the first patch was released, etc). We have started at 1.12.1 with changes / restrictions, but Classic is NOT even close to true Vanilla!

Therefore maybe it’s what you wanted, but not at all what I had in mind.

Because class balance wasn’t dire. Layering was necessary to be play to actually play the game on the limited number of servers blizzard was providing.

Everyone went in knowing the classes weren’t balanced. It is your fault if you decided to ignore that and play a dps druid.

Even if you wanted it… I feel like Blizzard would rather side with the “no changes” camp. Why? It takes far less work. They probably made Classic to profit with less effort and they seemed to be succeeding.