I get the "no changes" crowd, but there WERE changes, so why wasn't class balance one of the changes?


#61

You clearly have no clue what the OP was talking about. This is not about layering…


#62

“The slippery slope should have slipped to where I want it to be!” is among the weakest arguments made for specific changes.


#63

True, and yet the opposite of a defense here: the OP is nakedly using the existence of layering as a justification for demanding the changes they want.


#64

tldr
go play bfa


#65

No, not at all. It is if you have a victim complex, but otherwise you’re completely wrong.

You are FORCED in retail because you literally have zero choice but to use what limited abilities are available to your spec. Classic gives you options because you have access to everything regardless of talent point distribution.


#66

You want the changes, you play retail.

Find a guild that does not CARE about the meta. That will let you run a SPriest or Feral Druid.


#67

I do understand where he’s coming from. Most people are still leveling, so most people can level fine. The issues is, however, with the meta that people are following. This is not really Blizz’s fault per se. Its mostly people’s over-emphasis on min-maxing when you can be successful with any class fulfilling the needed roles. When i started to see people asking for aoe/cleave groups for dungeons, i said to myself, “Welp, looks like retail strikes again.” I thought i could escape the speed run crowd by coming to Classic, but it looks like its just too big of a habit for most people to give up. We only have ourselves to blame then.


(Dawnson) #68

I hope you realize that “slippery slope” is a logical fallacy, not something you want to build your argument on.


#69

If the US legalizes weed, everyone will do crack cuz slippery slope.
If I give money to a beggar on the street, my society will become socialist cuz slippery slope.

Your post doesn’t prove anything, only that you still adhere to an idea that in any other context would be crazy talk.


#70

Layering has nothing to do with ques. Layering is about reducing player density in the world as they level so you don’t have 20,000 people in hillsbrad, and it will be removed as people level and spread out, and log out for good.

If layering was related to ques, you would get a que when swapping layers.


#71

Layering is only phase 1 for obvious reasons, no changes, if you want to be top dps play a pure spec, hybrids being best at everything gave us the balance bfa has. You being the best at everything is unfair pure classes. Sorry druid you can fill all roles, you can’t be the meta at all roles.


#72

Slippery slope is a logical fallacy when there is no connection, or there is a weak or unclear connection, between the proposed change and the feared, eventual change. (check wikipedia for Slippery slope, (“The strength of such an argument depends on … whether or not one can demonstrate a process that leads to the significant effect.”))

The OP just provided proof of the connection. He literally argued that a previous change (adding layers) justified completely unrelated changes (“class balance”). It’s not hard to figure out what will happen if Bliz caves to these kinds of demands.


#73

The thing is, META is always changing. It probably won’t be long before some streamer swears "Raid group of (Composition Y) is so much better than (Raid Composition X) and you see people flock to the new composition.

Classes have roles. Some have very specific roles they excel at and almost nothing else. See Hunters and excelling at ranged damage and doing pretty janky at melee. See warriors excelling as raid tanks. Some are very flexible in their roles, but that comes at a minor cost of sheer power. Paladins make great dungeon running tanks because they can double as a backup healer in the group, or can be a tank that deals pretty decent DPS depending on talents and skills lined up. Tank falls in a dungeon? Druid bear steps in while someone brezes the real tank in a rush.

Each class has a defined role, unlike retail where everything is such a moshy mess the only difference in classes is the sparkles the skills give off.


#74

Historically, meta changes in games happen because of a change usually in balancing decisions. If blizzard outright refuses to tweak things, there will be very little room for the meta to change. This is because there is a finite of new information in this game and I am pretty sure after all these years, we are nearly know everything.

This coupled with the rampant Min/max elitism ensures that meta changes will be few and far between. And I am sure they will never include a boomkin.

There is no connection between layering>class tweaks>OMGRETAIL

See, you are “figuring” to that conclusion…


#75

If you can’t read, I can’t help you.


#76

My dude, You can’t read. But you can continue your fearmongering.


(Zeons) #77

Class balance will happen. The number of posts regarding this issue is going to continue to increase as people get rejected from content.


#78

Vanilla wow was made when support classes were still a thing
Druid, Paladin, Shaman are support classes they don’t heal the best, DPS the best, tank the best. they make the DPS hit harder, Tanks tankyer, and healers able to heal better and it should of stayed that way. i will never like the stupid holy Trinity and wish that Support was still a thing.
and no Healers are not supports they are healers


#81

Besides their one unique buff, I am not sure how ret pallys and moonkin really bring much to the table as far as support.


#82

because it’s not “ret pally” or “moonkin” in classic it was supposed to be druid or pally thats why you can go in all 3 trees and not just one like in retail