I’d be interested in knowing what an objective definition of rushing is.
Mostly, I read anecdotal or subjective interpretations that don’t have actual time. If rushing is a state of mind, the individuals should be managing their expectations before the start of the dungeon, e.g. indicating the run is for completion.
This is more general (meaning, not writing directly to you, Noble), but I’ve never had a reply to this concept I make in the linked post.
Nah it’s the education system I’m sure, but most of the stuff I’m talking about should’ve been learned growing up either by trial and error or by your parents. But if you’re oblivious to it it’s fine, there are a few examples I could give but it’s not going to prove anything. As far as the original comment, what may seem like a logical decision to you is probably not for 70% of the people on this earth, no matter how simplistic/obvious it is.
I don’t think you should be rewarded for being bad, just like how basketball players don’t get medals for losing. Wow is just a game though, but the participation rewards should be enough in that regard.
Exactly my point, not being spoiled enough. The problem with the gearing system right now is there’s basically no reward anymore, gear has lost 95% of it’s meaning. I only play for gear/mounts/pets and clearing content, gear is typically the most common and only reward I really care about, not saying I’m a loot hog as I pass on gear all the time but as long as it goes to a competent guildie/friend I feel like it was a gain anyway, team > single player.
I mean…I don’t know how they think it’s not enough when they get 5 ilvls below Mythic in +15 whether they fail hard or do it properly.
There’s no such “Here’s your free pass” in raiding. Plus Mythic+ is basically a unlimited slot machine while raiding is “LOL you got gold? Too bad wait another 6 days”
The analog to this with M+ would be to not post something until you’ve ruminated on it, masticated it a bit (prepping a route with a team, discussing cd usage for bigger pulls, when to lust). Then open the reply window (get the group in the dungeon, put the key in). Start typing (run the dungeon).
If the content matters there will be some form of planning and or experience that makes it easier to write a cogent reply in 30 seconds (eg high keys). If it doesn’t matter, and the response is throw-away and you can ignore grammatical mechanics (dungeon mechanics), then prep time and experience probably doesn’t matter.
Just my hot take. Not denying that time adds weight to a situation, but that it - like many things - is another challenge to test and engage our mental faculty, and largely to the extent that we want it to.
In the past when I used to bother to host raids/dungeons, not only was it a good idea to audit someone before they got in but afterwards giving out gear for me anyway meant you were pulling your weight. There were plenty of times where people would die multiple times through a fight or within the first minute, in those cases I don’t think you deserve a chance at gear unless it went to de. So basically in my mind contribution/effort = reward. Logging in for 30 minutes and expecting an ugprade from world quests I personally don’t think should be rewarded with a 455 titanforged item or something that has rank 3 twilight dev/infinite stars although they’re heavily rng based they are basically a short cut when the corruption system is concerned, now that there’s a vendor we can stack masterful or what ever which is reliable and more dps compared to rng.
Pugs sadly don’t prep anything, they expect you to just know.
Most of us have to pug occasionally. Friends are not always on at the right times.
I did figure out something over this weekend for pugging however. If you play when no one else plays you can get into more groups at a lower level. Sadly if you play when everyone normally plays getting in a group is hard press unless you over gear it all.
How do you know their expectations?
Edit to add: my brevity is not intended to convey a heightened state of personal boggle. It’s just that I think we fall back on assuming what others expect from us without communicating effectively what our own expectations are.
If a pug isn’t prepping - I read this as communicating/typing to each other as they head to the dungeon - then it seems as though their is an assumption of what’s expected.
If I’m tanking a pug key, I’ll share the method dungeon tools path. I’ll type “do you folks have this add-on? You like this route? I plan to go x y z.” If there’s no response, I will simply maneuver mobs and obelisks, etc as optimally as I can, but I don’t overly stress about it now.
I feel I’ve given them a time to type some stuff, and if they respond with just salutations - which is fine - we just go have ourselves some fun and see how it shakes out.
I made this post a few days ago. It relates to the topic so I’ll repost it here.
I don’t understand that response to the commenting, If I try I can type 90 words per minute with a 98-99% accuracy but why would I want to do that when I’m tired and I’m trying to sugar coat everything so it doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings. At most if I did that I’d maybe make a spelling error or skipping a couple words that would make a sentence seem like I was drunk when I typed it.
I don’t know. This comes from observation of all the pugs I have been in. A large percentage of them do not communicate and simply get to the task at hand. So I draw this conclusion from my own personal experiment.
I’m a night owl, I’m usually up until like 6 am. Nothing against oce/aus players but I don’t expect to get a single thing done after 11pm reliably. Most decent players at least for the US are on from 6-11pm typically, yes there are sporadic cases where you might see a couple groups over 2k on later than that for those that are like me but it’s not worth the time usually to wait until then. So I get all my lockout stuff done that requires a group at the start of the week during those times and anything I can solo like mount farming and such later, pugging one m+ for the week is pretty easy and me personally I dont’ care if it’s a 15 or an 18+ for the week, the amount of residuum is fairly close and the gear is the same so why bother pushing in my opinion other than to flex raider io epeen.
I’ve never really cared for pushing very high keys as I find it’s boring without guildies or friends to hang out with but it’s not that difficult, same mechanics just hits harder. But even as it sits you can pug 15-18s reliably, but obviously you need a decent enough io to get into those groups.
Given the number of complaints that revolve around pugs and high/unrealistic expectations I think this is pretty well established to be the norm unless otherwise specified (rightly or wrongly). IMHO it’s telling that the exception is being helpful/patient/etc. and the default is everyone is an expert ready to tackle something like a well-oiled machine.
You would expect the opposite to be true. A pug by its nature is random so should be more patient and lenient and wanting something to function like a MDI team should be where “just make your own group” comes in. Yet it’s consistently the other way around.
My point was that if the activity one is about to do matters, than prepping before the timer begins is worthwhile. Regardless of how long the timer is.
If you’re not feeling well, don’t engage in the activity until you do (reference your sleepiness or what have ya).
Have you tried soliciting communication?
Well technically you wouldn’t see much of the other type of group which would be guilds and such in premade and pugging is a huge thing for a lot of players even those in guilds or have groups of friends to play with. Like someone said earlier most of the time noones on at the same time so pugging is the only way to go. But it’s not like everyone that pugs is going to be learning, what about the experienced players are they only allowed to make groups and never touching premade queue?
I agree, I’ve dipped out on raid after giving warning cause I wasn’t able to efficiently do a mechanic and caused more stress on the heals due to being tired etc.
Technically that would be where that expectations thing come in since you can annotate your premade note. But really I think the in-game one is terrible and we need something like OpenRaid used to be where you can arrange it ahead of time rather than hope people are on at the same times with the same expectations.
Yeah. If I get asked to help tank a mythic + but I’m fatigued, I’d rather not be a liability! 