I am once again asking for racial balancing

I think that’s fine but there are a ton of options, such as just cutting out racials in specific content, that are being dismissed.

They could start building encounters with these racials in mind, taking the ones that break those encounters into account, and making their requirement less of a draw.

They could nerf these specific racials.

They could buff other racials.

There are a ton of options to satisfy the people that actually do encounter the problem without fundamentally changing the racial system for every single player.

If people just want their problem addressed then “remove racials in this high end content” is just as good for them as removing them entirely, but removing them entirely is still pushed for?

No, I wasn’t even talking to you, I said Ztroll racials were pretty good.

And that Shadowmeld’s most useful area is in PvP.

You then started fighting me, that no one chooses Ztroll and it’s racials bad.

To which we then spent pretty much all day going back and forth, on if people pick the race they do or not, solely because of thier racial.

To which you incorrectly tried to tell me that was the ONLY reason they did.

You ended up going 0 - 100 unhinged. Which was something others pointed out to you as well, that you were coming off that way.

Several of us, even tried to tell you, that it’s not the only reason people choose their races.

And that other racials do have good uses.

While none of us disputed that Shadowmeld was good, or stoneform.

Then don’t play that race.

Also, if they just disable racials in pvp most of the complaining would stop. Well, I would think, but given the track record of GD, probably not.

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I feel this my fellow Vulpera in exile.

I really love Vulp for aesthetics but Shadowmeld makes life soooooooo much better.

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Nah I think they’d need to go as far as disabling racials in mythic raids and 21+ keys to satisfy these folks.

Which is a perfectly fine compromise, but they certainly will not settle for it.

After all we do have the “I like deadlines, but only if they are imposed on everyone” poster in here.

Honestly this. I hate being limited by racials, but the answer isn’t removing them entirely and making everything more bland than it already is.

I don’t know what a proper solution would be, except possible alternative racials with some semi-convoluted lore rationalization.

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If you paid attention, I’m not saying nuke all racials. I’m saying that they simply are not balanced because of encounter design, the throughput racials are relatively close together with some outliers like Vulpera being a DPS loss simply because they have no throughput racial. But those tiny DPS changes are different from utility ratios being overwhelmingly useful because of encounter design. The only people I would try to shut out are the ones spouting blatant misinformation, not because their opinion was different but because what they are throwing out is 100% incorrect.

I’ve had a similar discussion with with one of the top parsing Mages, but their stance was they didn’t like that they had to be a certain race to get the absolute most DPS out of it, while that is a min max problem for parsing, DPS checks aren’t so tight that you will hit an enrage just because of your race. Utility racial abilities that can completely change in encounter for you, means that the ability is only a problem as long as encounter design enables it to be a problem.

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For Dwarves it’s easy. Remove the debuff removal from Stoneform & Fireblood and they’d STILL be perfectly fine racials with the damage reduction & free combat potion effects.

(And don’t forget that Dwarves ALSO have their crit throughput passive racial, which by itself makes them one of the top races in the game for DPS.)

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But, would that be enough to make you not feel forced to play a Dwarf?

Spitball idea: Leave standard racials, but allow for a list of “alternate racials” each toon can select from and replace a standard racial with.

These could be based on class, faction, or just a global list with various lore snippets based on race. Maybe Vulpera get “shadowmeld” in the form of a “dig in sand” or “Feign death” manner.

You could justify the same with Stoneform. “Survival Adaptation” “Encounters with venomous creatures have given you the ability to resist harm”

So on and so on.

I don’t take any issue with asking for tuning changes, with asking for things to be brought more in line, but these are cyclical problems that people will either get used to or continue to demand more homogenization.

That’s really all there is to it. Short of asking for total homogenization there isn’t much they can or will do that they aren’t already. There have always and will continue to be expansions and seasons in which one spec, race, class, etc is meta and short of asking for total homogenization that will always be the case.

And, I’m sorry, but people that are willing to conform to that feed this design.

Don’t ask for Blizzard to change something that you are actively going out of your way to pay for. You are incentivizing them to not change it.

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Which is wrong

Which is also wrong

I didnt fight you. I said you were wrong.

Making things up is cringe.

I never disagreed with that. I just said the majority of high end players…key word was high end…choose based off of racials and you said that wasnt true to the point multiple other people told you that you were wrong.

Its not so simple at the high end which is what the majority of people who dont play this game have an understanding of.

You are literally handicapping your team even in PVE by not going dwarf if you can go dwarf.

Considering most of this conversation has been directed at PvE I doubt it

I think this is a key part people seem to keep missing.

Dwarf is strong because it has very strong Offensive and defensive racials

I didn’t make anything up, I even sent quoted reciepts of our conversation earlier on in, in this thread.

Gaslighting though is VERY cringe.

You literally did disagree with it. You were saying the only reason people were choosing the race, was for the racial.

No, it’s not

Also false, Shadowmeld in an Arena or SS is beyond OP.

No, you got heated after a few back and forths, of you injecting your opinion into mine, and refusing to hear what I was saying, trying to say you were right.

I’m so done with toxic and manipulative behavoir from you.

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Lucky for me im not gaslighting. I dont get emotional over the forums.

Reach harder. I said the main reason.

It is. No one that does high end content plays ZT to a point it would be considered a better racial over other races. Even druids would rather be tauren or NE from a performance standpoint.

You dont know because you hide your alt because youre afraid to show your main.

Its also very strong in PvE which is why its wrong because its not limited to only pvp.

You are def confused. I havent been heated once

Not my fault you cant refute points and resort to trying to insinuate people are mad lol

The strength of shadowmeld isn’t just a PVP thing, as I pointed out three times already in this thread how it is able to completely remove a mechanic from an encounter like blight of galakrond. As long as a racial ability can completely remove a mechanic from a fight, it’s will be considered unbalanced because as an evoker I would need to use a Healer trinket as a DPS just to be able to survive it because I cannot cheese the mechanic. Also as an extra note, name calling and insulting people who disagree with you will only weaken any argument you try to make.

Considering all of the data and numbers currently run contrary to what you were trying to say, I would ask for just a moment to think on the stance of the opposition. I can see how you would like to prove us wrong because you have used things and they may have felt impactful yo you but at the same time the point of the argument being made has nothing to do with personal experience. I do not follow the trend of race changing for that advantage and neither do you, but I have seen and witnessed people engaging in that min max culture race changing because of racials giving either a slight damage advantage or a massive utility advantage because of encounter design at any given time.

You are free to have your opinion, but opinion more or less stops at “does the ability feel good for me to use,” when it comes to balance or actual usefulness, that becomes a matter of fact or fiction rather than opinion and arguing against existing facts is more or less trying to create misinformation.

The gaslighter doesn’t have to get emotional to Gaslight. Do you understand the definition?

Because you clearly don’t, and you’ve 100% done it multiple times here.

No, you point blank in several posts said your reasoning, which I pushed back on.

and you then went REEE

Did I say it was a better racial? Becasue last I checked, I said it was a pretty good racial, with some good utility, espeacially the Embrace of the Loa for Healers with it’s passive boosts.

You tried to tell me I was wrong, when I said it’s best use was in PvP, which is objectively true, for the advantage it brings to that mode.

Your opinion, does not make mine wrong.

Sure, Jan.

I’m not insinuating anything.

You 100% had a fragile outburst, and then tried gaslight me all day about it.

Did you read?

I said it’s best usage was in PvP.

I didn’t say it didn’t have a PvE function or usability.

and nowhere did I say it was a bad racial, so your block chain about Shadowmeld’s usefulness is un-needed.

No, my opinions don’t stop at what Min/Maxers feel they want to use or feel is good.

Becasue I never told ANYONE that Shadowmeld was bad, or was not OP.

Contrary to what many seem to believe here.

I said that Ztroll racials were good, and I talked about other racials that were also good and strong.

In a discussion about Racial balancing.

While also stating multiple times, that some racials should be buffed to match SM, for effectiveness to level the playing field, rather then deleting a racial.

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Brother, IDK how to tell you this, but the 11 people still playing pvp don’t matter. If this was a pvp game, you would absolutely be right, because the racials absolutely don’t make sense in anything other than a cooperative environment. But absolutely nobody cares about pvp in this game, man.