I think you misunderstood my post. I’m saying aesthetics and roleplay can matter as much as optimizing DPS. If John Doe is deeply invested in the Kyrian covenant, but also enjoys pushing high M+ with his friends, he shouldn’t have to give up massive amounts of DPS to do both. This is why covenant balance matters. 1-2% difference is a margin of error. 10% or greater difference is just ridiculous.
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I understood it. I treat the cosmetic and RP issue as mostly irrelevant because there’s literally only one person in my guild, and even in my network of friends, who gives any consideration to the aesthetics and roleplaying component of it. Even then, he’s not particularly married to it because he will go with the spec/covenant choice that best optimizes his dps for that particular content. So, right now, that is bouncing between Venthyr/Frost mage for raids and Night Fae/Frost mage for M+.
I can’t think of a single person in hundreds of people I interact with in game that give any consideration to the roleplaying or aesthetic options when what they want is the best available damage for their content. I agree with this position, but we also mythic raid each tier and try to push high keys.
That said, sure, we can disagree on that component. We can and do, however, agree that it should be a difference of margin of error from a damage perspective rather than such a wide gulf. I don’t, however, mind having one covenant being ideal for one scenario (single target) and another covenant being ideal for another scenario (aoe). Where our interests intersect is when one is always better than the other three in all scenarios.
Setting aside the rp aspect (I’m a fan of transmog, but I can’t say that the Covenants appealed to me in the first place), you’re right: we agree on the main issue. I’d be mildly annoyed if I had to swap covenants all the time for different content, but if they’re within a few percent, then I can always just stick with the one I like playing for other reasons (I like how Venthyr plays better than Night Fae). At the moment, I can’t do that without severely hampering my team.
That’s why I play Venthyr - it plays better than Night Fae. Given the mobility of fights, Wild Spirits is a wild pain in the posterior when a tank has to move (Vigilant Guardian and Halondrus come to mind this tier - and that doesn’t include M+ where it is a constant circus with a number of affixes). Having my aoe centered on my target is great with Venthyr. Mobile or not, it hits them.
Wild Spirits needs a [@cursor] macro to make it almost usable (but [@target] would be infinitely better in many cases). That’s a longer topic, but the core of my response is there was a very good reason I chose Venthyr - and with the understanding in advance I would be weaker in aoe and stronger on single target.
Unfortunately, swapping to Survival isn’t an option this tier because our raid team has too many melee as is (Skolex is unmanageable without suitable numbers of ranged in anything above Normal difficulty). Marksman is the only option remaining without changing classes. But, it too, is only really viable with Night Fae.
So, that leaves either playing another spec or another class. That’s a terrible choice at the start of a new tier.
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Obviously players have talked about how Beast Cleave feels to manage, how it could be better with ways to further extend the duration without having to re-cast Multi-Shot. These comments/points of feedback just weren’t in focus in the topics regarding the new tier sets, and their effects.
And like you, me, and others have said several times, the main issues are essentially:
- How the effects interact with parts of the specs’ core gameplay and talents, plus the Covenants, etc.
- How the bonuses provide no boost to our throughput for AoE, at all.
They did comment on this, in this very topic(the OP), how they intended to make changes to address that(the bit about AoE). Then we saw what was posted in that other topic, we saw how they announced changes that weren’t going to address a single point of concern regarding the effects from the tier set bonuses. As for the first point above, they still have yet to do anything to make up for the shortcomings in relation to the spec, or covenants, etc.
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the tuning to the tier sets has been amazing only if blizzard could put this much effort in to class tuning wow would be a better game.
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The tier sets haven’t been tuned either. At least BM.
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Technically speaking it was DE Tuned by the bug fix to the 2 pce that made BM a good ST spec down to a Below average ST spec.
Being as they never revert bug fixes best we can hope for is the standard add X% to our base damage.
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And even then, it won’t fix the way it wrecked Venthyr and Kyrian. And doesn’t address the way the 4-piece managed to put the Night Fae on notice that Blizzard doesn’t even always think of them.
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Attempted my first +20 key as a BM hunter ( my own key pugged everything) we are pretty good! Focus on gameplay !
Glad to hear it. Hope you still think so in a few months when you have your tier.
super excited to not spend focus on multishot so i can single target priority mobs.
They could straight up nerf BMs damage by 50% and he would still tell you how great it is.
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This. Legolasð seems to genuinely believe that the best way to help a spec he likes is not to give critical feedback that may help lead to fixing the spec’s problems but to instead pretend those problems don’t exist and the spec is far more potent than it actually is.
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I take it you don’t use Dreamweaver, right? Because otherwise, you’d be casting more often to keep your 3% damage buff.
Also, I await how awesome it is when everyone else’s tier takes them further than you can go. Being badass now isn’t the problem. It’s that in a month or so, we’ll be about where we are now and everyone else (mostly) will be bounding ahead of us.
He will just deny that there’s a problem and say “works for me!” as he no doubt runs average key levels with less-invested players giving him the sense that he’s far more competitive than he actually is.
As I said in the above post, his values fundamentally differ on how to improve the standing of a spec. Most rationally-minded people would think that identifying problems and weaknesses and giving constructive feedback would be the best way to improve a spec. Legolasd thinks that the best way to improve a spec is pretend it’s a lot better than it actually is and pretend all its problems don’t exist.
While I would love to agree with you: he’s running 15-19s right now . . .
Those are average key levels.
Appreciate the recogniztion . Running +19 +20 keys on week 2 is far from average I believe !
My goal is to time everything job+20 next week for the conduits !
Not on week 2 . For what it is worth I typically bottom DPS the key at 12k overall usually.