Uh . . . I don’t think that’s any different than the current stated effect. It’s just been worded. It literally misses the entire point of the thread: It doesn’t help!
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Using 4 piece now and its hot garbage. My dps hasnt noticeably increased much at all meanwhile everyone around me is racing up the charts.
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I only have my 2pc so far, but after seeing so many reports of the 4pc showing no discernible gains, I did some sims.
At 267 ilvl, changing my gear to give me the 4pc without changing the item level of those pieces, my DPS sim changed from 13,014 to 13,416. That’s a 402 DPS increase by having the 4pc over the 2pc.
While normally that would be a welcome increase, it equates to only a 3.08% DPS gain. Meanwhile, I’m seeing other specs get an 8-10% boost from the 4pc.
If only someone would have said something to Blizzard about this before the tier sets were available. Oh wait… we did - and were subsequently ignored.
Edit: Was directed to Bloodmallet site to see the potential of each spec’s 4pc bonus. This is that breakdown.
- BM Hunter - 13.5% DPS Increase
- MM Hunter - 25.5% DPS Increase
- SV Hunter - 30.0% DPS Increase
That’s a massive difference in tier set power. So much for balance.
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I may be missing something here, but if we altogether ignore the 4pc, wouldn’t that open up options that would provide more than 3% gain? Perhaps Venthyr?
MM got nerfed overnite. Pretty big AOE hit.
I made a post in GD and reddit and was told BM is fine by everyone. So we must be alright!
http s://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/tkwwmx/can_we_talk_about_bms/
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That reddit thread is a great example of the raw stupidity of the average /r/wow poster. Of all the WoW forums in my experience the quality of the average /r/wow post is the worst.
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Unlikely, because the 2pc and double legendaries makes having three potency conduits more important than before. Best soulbind options with Venthyr only allows two potency conduits.
Unity increases the value of covenant conduit. Rylakstalker’s increases the value of One With the Beast. Killer Cobra and 2 piece bonus makes Ferocious Appetite actually good.
Venthyr - Poor conduit pathing.
Kyrian - Overcaps Crit on Kill Command.
Necrolord - Has always been bad.
Night Fae - Less effective for BM than every other class in the game, but still our top covenant.
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I’ve tried making a similar point on Reddit before, but it all boils down to people not really understanding the spec. No matter how much you tell them it isn’t easy to play (well, master, it’s extremely easy to play), they just think that because you can freely move around the spec is easy. Yes you can, at one point, have competent DPS if all you did was spam buttons and run around. But that’s not possible anymore. Mastering the spec and doing great DPS is so much more than infinite movement. And a lot of these Reddit folks (and frankly, a lot of people even outside of Reddit) don’t understand that.
Also I love in the thread there are comments like “I played BM in a 15 and was fine.” To which I want to know: did you really? Or the person said he was topping the meters in raid. Was it LFR? There’s no way in an established raid group with a Demo lock or an MM in it that you were topping the meters. There is just no way, unless they were extremely undergeared compared to you. Then there are people praising BM’s ST. It’s okay, not great, but it’s what people think we’re supposed to be good at. But we sadly, aren’t. Also is it wrong to want something better for your spec? We’re currently sitting at the bottom of the meters, surely people realize that isn’t a good place to be.
But overall this is outside of the point of this thread: we should be discussing the 2p/4o set bonus. So let’s circle back to that. Even though it has been said to death already.
Currently it’s only worth being NF to benefit most from the set bonus. Where as before you could get away with being Kyrian, NF, or Venthyr and still be competent. It’s just not worth it being either Venthyr or Kyrian. You have far too much crit to benefit from Kyrian, and Venthyr’s playstyle is at odds with the set bonus. That leaves NF. Which isn’t the best option for BM, but it’s best option available.
The other issue, at least for me, I really do not like the playstyle that NF provides. The CD is too long, and the rotation is clunky. I really like Venthyr’s playstyle, but there really is no point in playing Venthyr because it’s just a massive DPS loss to use Kill Shots during BW uptime.
Anyway, this has all been said to death, and I don’t feel that Blizzard is going to fix, change, or otherwise even look at the set bonuses, let alone the spec as a whole. It was a miracle they even added multishot to the set bonus in the first place.
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Part of it is obviously just that some people want to crap on others, especially on Reddit. Another big part of it is that classes often look fine from an outsider view. I see Ret Paladins complaining constantly, but they seemed fine to me. Then I looked into it a bit and talked to a couple Ret friends and realize they’re in nearly as bad a position as BM - just in a different way.
When it comes down to it, though, the numbers don’t lie. BM’s single target max sim is only higher than WW Monk, but WW Monk has substantially higher AoE/Cleave damage. When single target damage is supposed to be your niche and you’re essentially the worst in the game at doing it, there is a problem.
If the game was more alt friendly, I’d switch to another class. After nearly 18 years playing a Hunter, it’s hard to just give all that up and start from scratch. I could always switch to MM, but I honestly just don’t enjoy the playstyle of MM and what is the point of playing the game if you’re not enjoying it.
That being said, I still enjoy playing my Hunter as BM. The problem is, with the numbers where they are, I’m having a hell of a time getting invited to the content I want to do. Those numbers matter when people are recruiting for their groups and raids. Regardless of how well I play my class, they will only see the potential.
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I agree 100%. This is the same exact issue I’m facing. Been playing this Hunter since the release of the game, and I really don’t want to invest what little time I have already into making another character (or just gearing up the ones that are already at 60). I want to play the class and the spec I want to play because it is what I enjoy. And my spec should be viable for all content in the eyes of the players who are recruiting for group content. And that shouldn’t be that much of an issue.
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Lots of folks came to Hunter to play the ranger with beast companion archetype.
That used to be the core of all 3 specs, and now you’re down to one option, beast mastery.
Marksmanship sacrifices their pet, Survival is a melee explosives expert.
The only spec that holds on to the class fantasy that brought many to the class is the one that’s essentially an afterthought to devs. From borrowed power like enchants not affecting your pets, stripping of design complexity, systemic gutting of pet functionality, class wide lack of defensive functionality leading to the most populous class being underrepresented in any content as damage ramps up. Core talents applying blanket auras that cripple other talents.
And to be honest I wouldn’t be much bothered by all of this if complaints from players of other classes didn’t lead to bizarre and compounded nerfs to functionality.
Bring back focus fire, fix our set bonus to actually be the 10% bump it should be and not 3, and take a long hard look at the class for season 4.
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The 4pc vs no set bonus at all is a 13.5% DPS increase. The problem is that most specs are seeing ~25% DPS increase from the same. SV is getting a 30% boost from theirs - the best in the game. I’m fine with them getting that boost, because they’ve been crapped on for years, but BM’s set bonus needs to be brought up to snuff.
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3 % with added extra to dam reduced beyond 8 tagets with BC, at this stage better than nothing, but needs alot more.
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Having gotten my 4PC this week and given it a go with Survival. It feels…awkward.
Currently the optimal way to play is to hold a charge of Wildfire Bomb at all times, that way when you get a 2pc proc you can spend it immediately and be refunded that single charge of Wildfire bomb. If you don’t hold a charge of Wildfire Bomb basically you’re stuck waiting around 8-12 seconds for Wildfire Bomb to come off CD to utilize your 2pc Proc, the whole time you may have already gotten 1-2 other procs that are wasted.
This results in, basically …not spending resources and a feeling of being punished for accidentally spending that last charge, even if you needed that extra bit of damage.
Getting back to back procs when a pack of mobs is at 5% health that you didn’t really help kill because you were holding a charge feels bad as well. “Hang on guys! I’ll help kill the next pack for sure! … If I get any procs.”
It also makes it important to have an addon to help track the buff that basically says “Hey you can use that Wildfire Bomb charge”.
My feedback would be instead of making it so our next cast of Wildfire Bomb refunds itself, just… make it so that the 2Pc Proc gives us back charge of Wildfire Bomb. That way we can use both Wildfire Bomb charges and if we get a proc, happy bonus.
Additionally due to how valuable these procs are you end up spamming Kill Command during Pheromone Bomb just fishing for 2pc Procs regardless of if you cap focus as getting a 2pc Proc outweighs everything else. Even outside of Pheromone bomb (which feels bad when you don’t or barely get any Pheromone bombs during a fight) you’re focused on Kill Command resets over Raptor Strike/Serpent Sting, etc. We spend most of a fight just fishing for bomb resets, everything else forgotten.
I feel as if tying the procs to Raptor Strike or even Serpent Sting would’ve made that feel better. Though it’s late to make any sort of major changes I understand.
A neat and extreme change would’ve been to take away the charge system from Wildfire Bomb and instead make it cost focus. Raptor Strike single target, Wildfire Bomb AOE, simple, our Mastery now affects Wildfire Bomb too, Bonus. Make Carve…idk, do something else, spread Serpent Sting or something, put a Bleed On Everything, turn the mobs into chickens, idk.
Sure Survival needs a bit of a rework and I don’t expect that now but a change to how the 2PC works would be nice.
The bahavior of the MM 4-set has been bugged and otherwise obfuscated since inception and our attempts to play around it continuously thwarted by inconsistent focus contribution behaviors. What would help improve the gameplay experience drastically is when equipping the 4-set we receive a stacking buff with a stack count matching whatever count out of 40 that the game holds internally so that we have the same information the game does as to when we can make use of the 4-set and choose our next cast properly.
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For an example on this, I encountered this scenario in a run that ruins our currently best known way of tracking our 4-set progress. Starting at the beginning of a dungeon that I re-equipped the set bonus to make sure the counter was reset, these were the casts. The Trick Shots triggers and cast timestamps were omitted until the last cast as they were as expected.
casts Aimed Shot on Gatewarden Zo’mazz [0 → 35]
casts Aimed Shot on Customs Security 6 [35 → 30]
casts Multi-Shot [30 → 10]
casts Aimed Shot on Gatewarden Zo’mazz [10 → 5]
casts Aimed Shot on Customs Security 6 [5 → 0]
casts Multi-Shot [0 → 20]
casts Aimed Shot on Customs Security 6 [20 → 15]
casts Aimed Shot on Gatewarden Zo’mazz [15 → 10]
casts Aimed Shot on Gatewarden Zo’mazz [10 → 5]
casts Kill Shot on Gatewarden Zo’mazz [5 → 15]
casts Arcane Shot on Customs Security 6 [15 → 35]
casts Arcane Shot on Customs Security 6 [35 → 15]
casts Arcane Shot on Gatewarden Zo’mazz [15 → 35]
casts Multi-Shot [35 → 15]
casts Kill Shot on Urh Relic 1 [15 → 25]
casts Multi-Shot [25 → 5]
casts Aimed Shot on Customs Security 7 [5 → 0]
---------------------- unexpected trigger on next cast ----------------------
00:57.446 Jayeasy gains Trick Shots from Jayeasy
00:57.509 Jayeasy casts Aimed Shot on Interrogation Specialist 5 [0 → 35]
00:57.509 Jayeasy’s Trick Shots fades from Jayeasy
You can see this last cast unexplainably triggers Trick Shots while the current state of the total focus spent should be back to 0. This wasn’t even reproducible when I tried the exact sequence afterwards on target dummies multiple times, so there is some random bug that prevents us from being able to track this. Knowing what the game holds internally through a stacking buff would be the best way to ensure we can actually optimize our set bonus as long as these things keep happening.
2 Likes
Bumping request, was made aware Druid actually has a buff exactly like this with Arcanic Pulsar. Having the same kind of stacking buff would massively improve our experience playing with the 4-set since we need to constantly adapt casts based on this number. As long as the stacks represent at most 5 focus intervals or the exact amount exists in the tooltip we could make use of it.
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Got AOTC tonight as a BM hunter. 5 parsed it but hey a kill is a kill.
#Straightupgamer
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No, not really. With absolutely maximum gear, the 4pc is about a 665 dps upgrade. The two piece is about a 1000(ish) dps upgrade. The 4pc is worse than the 2 piece. But, let’s say you want to say instead what the aggregate is: Roughly 1665(ish) dps. (You can see this breakdown on Bloodmallet where it shows you what the tier set bonuses each contribute)
Keep in mind, however, that this is with the best in slot gear. Meaning, of course, almost everyone else will see substantially lower until that “mythical point” exists.
And, for the final total, both bonuses combined yield a grand total of 13.58% of our damage with absolutely best gear in game. (Mind you, this number is drastically lower for any covenant that is not Night Fae.)