If you look at the logs, you can see a clear difference between paladins that do get innervate vs ones that don’t. I am not saying I dont appreciate them trying to make holy light a button we ignore like we did in TWW; however its concept just doesn’t really work in todays game I feel. We should re-distrubute its power into holy shock, fol and our spenders. Having high cpm of builders and spenders should correlate to high output, the entire idea of midnight was to simplify the game, so why is the spec so reliant on another classes external?
7 Likes
But then it’s useless. Do they delete it?
I guess they could change it to transmit extra healing through beacon which could give it a niche or something.
in TWW it was already one of our highest heals we just didnt have the mana to use it at all since our reg rotation would oom you throughout an encounter, they failed to understand that so there way of forcing it into our kit was buffing it by like 300% which was asinine
what if we put a short CD on HL? or a couple of charges? High Mana, long cast, still powerful. Hand of Divinity would ignore this ofc.
And then buff spenders too and the talents linked to them (Seraphic Barrier, remove a couple of dead talents and make 1 or 2 WoG specific ones). (holy shock and infused FoL are relatively too powerful compared to WoG)
Then after that do the same to judgement and finally throw a decent aura buff to Hpal and we should be in a way better place.
2 Likes
Remember the people that defended this garbo in beta? There’s your culprit
2 Likes
I also think extrication should increase the healing of EF/WoG by up to 100% based on targets missing HP so good target selection is rewarded, why is this a ret only talent? this would make more sense for holy
I still think they should lower the healing and mana on Holy Light and re-add HL to Infusion, with Infusion bonuses to HL being higher healing and splash healing.
The bigger problem for us in raids as I see it though is the lack of AoE healing. We spam Light of Dawn and that’s about it. No Glimmer, talents like Tyr’s Deliverance are garbage, and Dawnlight just feels so weak now.
Single target spot healing playstyle may work in slower healing environments (i.e. WoD healing) but it just doesn’t cut it in yo-yo spike healing that we continue to see today.
2 Likes
I like Holy Light how it is.
Edit: it’s kind of interesting how we’re a two-resource spec in a very real way, though. Holy Power and Mana, with Holy Power feeding three abilities and Mana only REALLY feeding Holy Light. What if Holy Light was renamed Light of the Martyr, kept its enormous healing and its cast time, but cost us a percentage of our own personal health and/or an absorb shield to cast it instead of mana? We would, of course, remove the current talents giving us an absorb shield from Holy Shocks.
For us to redistribute power we need to have some power 
1 Like
They built this talent system and very rarely use it for what it should do.
To achieve this redistribution of power, they should create coherent builds or at the very least tune talent alternatives that rival the Divine Favor + Divine Purpose + Hand of Divinity + Resplendent Light talents. Divine purpose is so centrally located, taking that point out limits the options pretty dramatically. You’re essentially left with AM or LoD talents - that’s terrible.
If they are looking for potential mini-reworks, delete talents like Saved by Light and Overflowing light. These talents are incredibly boring, not at all build or game play defining, are purely passive and are sub 1% choices that live and die on tuning. Even if they were tuned well enough you’d take them, forget about them and the least offensive thing about them is you couldn’t care less if you had them or not. So why do they exist?
Get rid of them or redesign them to interact with some other aspect of the spec. At least then you can have your Holy Light build or your alternative Judgment build or WOG/EF build or something.
1 Like
holy light being powerful is fine, but the spec shouldn’t be reliant on another classes external to be useful, and even if we do get innervate we still are behind lol
2 Likes
I also think truth prevails mana reduction should be baseline because without judgement cost too much man. I also think divine overload should be a choice somewhere along the tree instead of a patch to sunwell.
2 Likes
we have a lot of power in holy light, we just can’t utilize it a lot, it needs to be redesigned and be given that power into our spenders
3 Likes
Glistening Radiance, Sbtl,Veneration, Tirion’s Devotion, Liberation, Pillars of Light, Rising Sunlight, Truth Prevails, Call of the Righteous, EL, Recompense, Lightforged Blessing, Sacrifice of the just are all either bad designed, horribly undertuned, boring or even a loss in HPS/uptime.
Seek Deliverance in particular is terribly designed since we lost mastery during wings, making wings less impactful
6 Likes
just make it a proc like flash of light. Make it come up less often and bump up our healing 8-10% ez pz
One of the more frustrating noob traps at the moment is that people look at the Warcraft Logs chart at 90%/95%/99/% in Heroic or Mythic and conclude that Hpal is only 15-25% behind other healers.
But once Innervate buffed Holy Light spam garbage is ignored, Hpal is actually more like half as powerful as other healers, or worse.
The entire talent tree needs a numbers pass. No talent should read “heals for 90” when health pools are 400,000+. No talent should be a HPS loss to take. No talents should just turn off mechanics or disable healing effects. Conditional talents shouldn’t be weaker than non-conditional ones.
A single developer needs to take a look at Hpal and actually care about how it plays, how it performs and what options the talent tree provides.
11 Likes
There is absolutely zero reason a point spender should be even close to a point generator. From a basic standpoint it doesn’t make sense and at this time holy shock feels about the same HPS as word of glory and don’t even think about casting horrible light to dawn in 5 man content what a waste of global cooldown not even of holy power which is worthless.
spam holy shock, spam flash of light flash heal proc, spam holy word repeat
Empyrean legacy and its nerf have been a disaster for wow and the paladin race
6 Likes
just give us what we had in s3 of tww man, EF moved someones health bar to full, we were “bad” on hps rankings but that profile of healing we brought to a raid was invaluable and sought after by a lot of people
3 Likes
We shouldnt rely on a RNG crit-based talent just to perform well. Just buff spenders, hero talents and passive HPS across other talents, specially judgment ones, make the caster build optional for those who enjoy that (horrible) playstyle.
I don’t know that it needs a re-distribution but it needs a significant buff. Their HPS is way behind the top specs in M+.
I would just buff their spenders a lot more and maybe buff greater judgement. Maybe seraphic barrier could just be an addition instead of a conversion (or maybe it would be worth using just from buffing the base spenders enough).
I’d also buff Liberation from 12% to at least 50% if not 100%. MW can do 30k+ DPS while simultaneously doing over 100k HPS in AoE situations. I think we can let holy paladins overlap a bit more. Maybe that could be a herald specific mod and Lightsmith could be more melee focused with a Lightforged Blessing buff instead? 
5 Likes