How is blizzard STILL not putting Hpal at least on par with the healers?
We need more buffs, spec still feels like trolling to play as.
C’mon Blizzard, you did all the tuning passes you told and still it looks VERY bad in comparison to all other healers in Raid.
The changes on .5 won’t move us from the situation we are at, we need MORE CHANGES/BUFFS.
I did a 9 last night on my Holy Pally with a 218 ilvl, and felt like a god (was easily able to bring the entire party from the brink of death to full multiple times with virtue and holy light).
Im kind of afraid that whatever they do to make us better in raid, might gut us for keys?
Virtue? I tho that was old news
So the guides say. Its the weaker option on avg as far as overall healing numbers goes, but its insane when you need to save the group from death in a key, esp when you havent even geared for heroics yet 
I’m a massive believer in using Virtue despite what “guides” say. 2 buttons to top up the group (Virtue+infusion FoL or regular HL) then right back to doing damage till next damage event
Amen brother. Virtue till I dye!
More buffs have to follow. Just an aura buff isnt enough because the spec has core issues tied to its gameplay loop and spender/builder system, again.
virtue is fine for your weekly keys and will be played later in the tier once bosses die in 3-4m, Virtue in higher keys will just simply oom you and its very punishing when you have no beacons out for a few seconds waiting for its CD, this is even worse now due to holy light being a button you rely on higher up you go. The guides don’t say “Virtue is not good”, virtue has always been the highest HPS route for us, the trade off is that its quite expensive on our mana, the guides are written by long term top 20 hall of fame holy paladins, out of all the guides for other classes I will say holy paladin is def the most safe and reliable ones.
I never questioned the guides validity, only that virtue is God like when the group is taking a lot of damage (and mana isnt an issue) in under geared keys.
You had an amazing group to do a 9 at 218. Nothing to do with being a holy pally. Utter rubish what you are thinking is going on
Being able to bring 5 players from under 10% health to full in 2 GCDs, multiple times throughout the run, with a 218 ilvl, is pretty cool, no?
I also never implied that only a Holy Pally could do that, or that pallys were “special”. I was literally only commenting that whatever they do to improve raid performance, I hope it doesnt impact their ability to heal small groups well in “oh crap” situations.
I cant even begin to fathom how incorrectly you internalized my comment lol.
But my point is people arent taking virtue because it drain mana too much. So any group less than stellar and you are going to have a bad time. Also its only 15%, so lets not pretend its topping people off with ease here
it 100% is, esp when you pop it with wings, entire group in 1 instant cast….like, you can test it yourself, dont take my word for it lol
I also appreciate how you say that your point was about its mana efficency, when you said nothing if the sort in your comment 
To jog your memory, this is all you said lmao:
No clue why you are so grumpy, mr lol
Such a meaningless assertion.
How is your group repeatedly dropping to sub 10% health in a 9?
Even in full gear, FoL is only critting for ~300k with Infusion proc. HP from ~200 to 275 ilvl ranges from about 220k to 400k. Virtue transfers 15% when fully talented. Maybe you are Flashing the Saviour target for a 20% amp. Even under ideal circumstances and ignoring the fact you said you were 218 ilvl, there is no way that Flash is topping the party from 10%.
The group is likely pressing heals/pots/stones or defensives that also heal and tanks are off healing or using procs on DPS and you think it’s Hpal being good.
So much Hpal discourse obviously comes from players with nothing to compare to. Even your fanciful tale of pressing your 15s CD after your 2m CD to then press Flash to spend a proc you get once per minute is worse than any MW that just presses SG once.
It’s not really a mana problem unless you’re also pressing Holy Light.
The problem is that Virtue sucks. Even on fights that it should be ideal for, like Crawth, it’s still awful because it’s just a weak healing amp that has to be combined with more powerful buttons to be effective.
But those more powerful buttons are strong enough to heal through screeches and similar mechanics with passive beacons, so why take Virtue? Or they’re not strong enough and Virtue isn’t changing that outcome, so why take Virtue?
Hpal has a few mechanics that should be ideal for different healing profiles and they just aren’t. Double/triple Beacons but cleave healing sucks. Group wide CD healing with Virtue but group wide AoE burst healing sucks. Options for 1m, 2m, 3m CD’s but CD healing sucks. Holy Shock being the core of Hpal toolkit but spot healing also sucks.
Spec has been through 18 reworks over the past few years and somehow the devs have screwed up everything such that current Hpal is the weakest and worst gameplay loop the spec has ever had in modern WoW even after all the “work” the devs put into it. We went from S2 DF to this lol. Blizz devs are going for a generational run of abject failure with Hpal.
Really? You cant fathom how that could happen more than once in a 9? Really? Ive seen it happen in a MGT 2 lol.
When did I mention Flash, ever? Wings makes HL instant cast, and bring the entire group to full with 1 press (with virtue up).
Again, I never mentioned flash lol. What I did mention, you can test yourself…no need to write essays my bro.
I’ve only ever said the same thing (pressing it with other CDs). You still have FoL in your head, so I dunno what to say though lol.
Show me where Virtue touched you?
A 9 is like doing a +3 last season. M+ is a joke right now. Every healer can easily tip the group in a +9. When you look at HPS in m+ and raid we are dead last, even after the “buff”. We are one of the only healers that has completed a +20 yet
Ya I’ve noticed the dungeons are pretty brain dead compared to TWW. My only comparison was Holy Pally from TWW season1, where at no point was I able to bring the entire group from near death to full with such few button presses than right now.
Dawn of light our aoe heal its useless or feels like it on 5 man, yeah ppl are tired of spamming it on rauda but still…needs to get a non-raid treatment
That or unnerf- Buff LE already
I was testing Virtue in weekly 10 keys for the meme yesterday an even with truth prevails it just isnt worth it.
Timing virtue, the extra GCD and the mana cost that just doesnt exist with Faith just make it inferior in almost every single scenario. Holy shock cost and virtue cost are just too high baseline and current beacon transfer values are not that good.
It’s easy to “do” a rework if that spec is just numerically above everyone else by 20-25%. Doesn’t necessarily means it was good design (glimmer DR management, Tyr’s, a billion CDs, useless infusions, Blessings were all awful). Having said that, I do miss having Triple Holy Shock and for our spenders and wings feeling impactful for once, as well as 1 min sac.