How will classic affect retail server population?

[Fixiu-dalaran (Fixiu)]

your snark is better/more acceptable than my snark?

you’re gonna make me quote all that? eh nevermind, you win. lol

this is our conversation

[Nyl-sisters-of-elune]

No you’re not. You’re backpedalling and falling all over yourself. You don’t get to tell me what I meant when I wrote something. You can tell me how you interpreted what I wrote, wherein I can correct your misunderstanding (for whatever reason). That’s how actual conversations work, whether in text or verbal. At no point did I explicitly state that I wasn’t including developer intent. And that’s a moot point anyways because YOU brought up developer intent repeatedly over and over again before trying to tell me that I wasn’t talking about developer intentions to begin with. You’re ridiculous.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

And that’s a moot point anyways because YOU brought up developer intent repeatedly over and over again

I brought up developer intent only after you shifted the goal post to it.

[Nyl-sisters-of-elune]

I brought up developer intent only after you shifted the goal post to it.

I can’t shift the goalpost to it if that was part of the scope of the discussion from the start. Also citation required. Oh wait, we have citation from you talking about why you brought it up and it wasn’t because of me.

Some of Vanilla’s being better for roleplaying was intentional, some was not; that was me explaining which parts were which.

The context would include what I was responding to, which was only whether the changes were unintentional - at the time they were made. And the changes weren’t made in Vanilla.

The original dev team did understand roleplaying better; things like not using story phasing were intentional. Other things, like the boat time, were likely unintentional. Most of the original dev team left soon after the game went live, so they weren’t around when all the changes detrimental to roleplaying were made.

Oh but here we go, this is what you were arguing which you had to clarify after you engaged with me on a different topic altogether:

Ultimately, though, I’m arguing only that Retail actually is much worse for roleplay than Vanilla was, not that the change was intentional. If you agree that it’s actually much worse now, and are only arguing that the changes were unintentional, then yes, we’re on the same page.

Except again, that wasn’t the argument at all. So why weren’t you clamoring about me shifting goalposts then? Oh wait, that’s because it’s something I said to you and you just tried to throw it back in my face.

Ultimately I don’t care what you’re goalpost shifting the argument to.

That’s what I wrote. You didn’t even mention shifting goalposts until I said it to you there. And then you’ve been a broken record saying, “no u” since because you don’t have any actual argument you can make. It’s hilarious.

You can give up. You’re not clever. And you’ve explicitly admitted what your arguing above and it was not the argument I made or even the argument you claimed I made at the beginning. That’s just you performing mental gymnastics. I mean, it’s funny to watch but it’s starting to get repetitive.

Vanilla wasn’t catered to RP’ers. Neither is retail. No one cares if you like vanilla/classic better, that wasn’t the debate. No one cares about your mountain of trivial things that were changed like not having mandatory RP time while waiting on a boat (lolololol, yes that was seriously on your list). Or even better that the first thing on your list was that you can’t do M+ and RP because of the timer. Seriously? The fact that that was on your list and it was the first thing on your list just makes it very apparent how ludicrous your position is. I don’t have enough possible /facepalms to give you. I just, I gotta stop because I can’t handle it. I mean, you’re some super awesome RP’er who doesn’t even know what metagaming is. LOL.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

Oh wait, that’s because it’s something I said to you and you just tried to throw it back in my face.

I was snarking back after you quoted a cherry picked two words to misrepresent what I was saying, yes.

I just, I gotta stop because I can’t handle it.

And yet you keep doubling down on your lack of knowledge of roleplaying and roleplaying terminology.

[Nyl-sisters-of-elune]

I was snarking back after you quoted a cherry picked two words to misrepresent what I was saying, yes.

I didn’t cherry pick anything. I quoted you in context of what you wrote. Here, I’ll do so again…

I said this:

So what? Again, this wasn’t done or not done to cater to RP’ers.

You quoted it and responded to it with this:

I agree.

What’s cherry picked there? Oh right, nothing, you just realized that you stated I was right and your initial position was wrong. And you went on to elaborate.

Like most of the changes that are detrimental to roleplay, it was done because Blizzard had no clue what aspects of their game facilitated roleplay. That doesn’t change the fact that many of the things they thought were improvements were actually the opposite from a roleplaying standpoint.

So I’m right. Vanilla wasn’t catered to RP’ers. That’s what YOU wrote. And you didn’t like that you tripped up and admitted it so you backpedalled and deflected and threw “no u!” at me over and over and over again.

And yet you keep doubling down on your lack of knowledge of roleplaying and roleplaying terminology.

Yes, says the person who thinks anything OOC is metagaming. Or do I need to quote where you thought having to have an ooc discussion about unsync’d conversation was metagaming? Lol

[Krestin-aegwynn]

Not that it is any of my business to get in between two snarling dogs, but I am baffled how this word play between you has two grown adults at each other. It’s like a battle of wits, and neither of you is willing to just walk away. it’s all semantics really. I hope the both of you can put aside your differences.

/the peanut gallery

[Nyl-sisters-of-elune]

It’s not a battle of wits. It’s entertainment since classic beta is down It’s either here or leveling another toon as my raids are done for the week, I’ve already done my M+, and unfortunately Cyberpunk 2077 isn’t out yet /sob. But the dispute isn’t over semantics. It’s not a situation where there’s been some confusion about the scope of the discussion due to ambiguous word usage. That’s the position Irisse has now backpedalled into after exhausting other avenues including repeatedly addressing the very points she is now trying to claim is outside the scope of the discussion. Her initial position was wrong. Vanilla was not catered to RP’ers. She may have prefered vanilla systems better than retail, however that wasn’t the point I made that she contested, it’s not something I’ve ever disputed because, well, that’s subjective anyways. I don’t care if she liked vanilla better or is looking forward to Classic. She just refuses to cop to it or stop responding with denials so here we are.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

So what? Again, this wasn’t done or not done to cater to RP’ers.

You quoted it and responded to it with this:

Irisse:

I agree.

What’s cherry picked there?

What was cherry picked the first time was your omission of your goalpost switch from what the Vanilla game did - support roleplay better than Retail - to why the developers made those changes.

Yes, says the person who thinks anything OOC is metagaming.

It was your own definition that said use of anything OOC - that is, player knowledge not character knowledge - is metagaming.

[Nyl-sisters-of-elune]

It was your own definition that said use of anything OOC - that is, player knowledge not character knowledge - is metagaming.

No it was not. Stop lying. I said, here, I’ll quote it…

No, that’s not metagaming. Here, since this says it better than I can let me copy/paste for you:

Metagaming is a term used in role-playing games , which describes a player’s use of real-life knowledge concerning the state of the game to determine their character’s actions, when said character has no relevant knowledge or awareness under the circumstances.

It’s when you use out of game information that you do not have in-character to make in-character decisions.

That’s what I said. Why do you lie? I mean, it’s not hard to quote exactly what I said. But then again, your entire argument is predicated on deception, misdirection, deflection, etc.

So yes, the person who pretends to be an RP’er doesn’t understand definitions of RP terms. LOL.

[Arathella-wyrmrest-accord]

I think you’ll see pendulums and that Blizzard will kind of gear it that way. Retail will get a patch, then a month or two later Classic will move to the next phase, then a month or two later Retail will get a patch, etc. ad infinitum. This could also set up a cycle where WoW gets an xpac every year (say evens for Retail and odds for Classic) so that they can keep the hype up and help keep folks from unsubbing for a month or two between patches.

[Oshuni-aerie-peak]

1.) Blizzard themselves use the terms “Classic” and “Vanilla” interchangeably. So yes, Classic = Vanilla, Vanilla = Classic.

Really? Got a source? Because i haven’t seen it.

I think that you’re just opting to say that they are to cover yourself, but that’s okay, i won’t argue the point further with you. We’re all eager to see Classic arrive in August and compare it with how Vanilla was way back when!

2.) Addons existed in Pre-TBC times as well. Some of them are even getting updated to run in Classic.

Well, there were a few like Decursive that were integral to raiding but the majority of raiders didn’t use much beyond that in Vanilla, perhaps in BC and onwards.

[Laeric-wyrmrest-accord]

DBM also existed in Vanilla, I think. If not, well… it will in Classic.

[ßanned-muradin]

Retail will probably see a drop in attendance, upon the release of “Classic.” However, I would expect that to pick back up after a short time.

I think many want to at least look at it, and see how it is. I’m hoping for a rather authentic experience, as I played Vanilla back in the day. I grow bored with retail, and just use it to pass the time for a while.

I will be solid on Classic when it starts. If it’s not an authentic feel, then I will leave again, never to return to Blizzard.

Oh, and sharding is not an issue in my opinion.

Fingers are crossed.

[Abombanation-darkspear (Abombanation)]

Most people will try classic for a month or two, if that, then realize all the QoL changes that are in retail (or just get bored with the tedious grindy hell that was vanilla) and will return to retail.

I disagree think they will realize how Classic is a far superior MMO in every facet and fall in love. Also Classic will have many times the number of Subs and active players than retail. More people will be playing Classic by far, millions more.

Also you forget that Classic is 6 phases, so people will be playing it for years. I am most looking forward to phase 2 which will be months after Classic launches. Then of course all the other phases are great and it just keeps going. Classic is years of fun and content. Which you can’t say about retail.

[Darem-kargath (Darem)]

Dont worry, retail has sharding and crossrealms on steroids, youll never be alone even though you always are.

[Derka-wyrmrest-accord (Derka)]

People will still play Retail. There are still a lot of people who have no interest in Classic.

[Kerg-scarlet-crusade]

It’s going to be very intetesting to see how it turns out. I think the majority of the long term Classic population quit modern WoW long ago, or at least they quit playing it on a consistent basis.

But I also think there will be a significant number of BFA players who try Classic and won’t be able to stop playing it, because they will quickly come to the realization that it’s just a much better designed game in virtually every way.

[Ðavyjones-tichondrius]

I’m worried that classic with eat into server population that people will quit in droves to play classic. Do you think people will still play retail?

It will go up and down. As new content gets released people will go try it out.

There might actually be a large number of people who love Classic but are fully nostalgic about it… when they play they realize they dont want that play style but give retail a try and choose to stay for that.

[Kerg-scarlet-crusade]

DBM also existed in Vanilla, I think. If not, well… it will in Classic.

I think most people used CT Raid Assist, which performed a similar function.