10/31/2018 11:26 AMPosted by
Loial
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Until a juiced 5-reck-stacked Paladin bubbles off your mind control and in 1 swing cuts through your bubble to half health, repents you, and finishes you off with Gnomish Death Ray (I've done this :P).
WotF is pretty great but so is Fear Ward, albeit it can be purged. But Fear Ward has an additive bonus of being *very* useful in PvE as well and isolates you as a must-have Priest.
And come on, that Dwarf /flex and spamming /cheer. Try it out :].
How does gnome intel help priesthood?
Fvck gnoams.
Cabbage-smelling turncoats.
10/31/2018 11:38 AMPosted by
Doxima
10/31/2018 11:31 AMPosted by
Moccoo
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Fear Ward was powerfull in PvP too man, I always thought the Undead Priest spell was weak sauce. It was a dot that heals you right?
It was so weak it was pointless.
Again it’s not the heal it’s the dps. The second dot is equal to the first. Two dots add to shadow weaving and increases odds on blackout. Throw in Mind Flay and the defense barrier and it’s a decent class - easy to kill others and you have good survivability.
The dps is meh. It does like ~110 damage every 3 seconds base while also costing 1000 mana. That's like... a third of your mana bar off one spell if not more. If you don't kill them before you oom which will be like another 5 casts then you are screwed. And if it gets cleansed the DP actually hurt you which it can by a lot of the alliance. Don't get me wrong it is good, against non-dwarf warriors, rogues, hunters, and locks. But any class that can heal through it will destroy you once you are oom.
Dwarf IMO is just better all around and has 3 extra defensive cooldowns that help against every class
So many useful information! Thank you people!
10/31/2018 11:52 AMPosted by
Nicho
10/31/2018 11:38 AMPosted by
Doxima
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Again it’s not the heal it’s the dps. The second dot is equal to the first. Two dots add to shadow weaving and increases odds on blackout. Throw in Mind Flay and the defense barrier and it’s a decent class - easy to kill others and you have good survivability.
The dps is meh. It does like ~110 damage every 3 seconds base while also costing 1000 mana. That's like... a third of your mana bar off one spell if not more. If you don't kill them before you oom which will be like another 5 casts then you are screwed. And if it gets cleansed the DP actually hurt you which it can by a lot of the alliance. Don't get me wrong it is good, against non-dwarf warriors, rogues, hunters, and locks. But any class that can heal through it will destroy you once you are oom.
Dwarf IMO is just better all around and has 3 extra defensive cooldowns that help against every class
You're just theorycrafting. I've been there, done that. Back in Vanilla Undead and Human were the most popular races. The 'dwarf' thing came later.
To me pvp is bgs because there was very little WPvP due to server lag. If dueling is your thing roll a rogue and be done with it.
But in the bgs in Vanilla my experience was Horde won 70-80% of the bgs, except for the later AV which was a pve mount race and I think Alliance had a shorter track.
It's simple really. Horde didn't have better players they simply had better pvp racials. PvP is similar to a street fight in that whoever takes the initiative and connects first usually wins. Not always, but most often. In AB usually 5-8 from each side would go to the BlackSmith node. A tauren (shaman or warrior or druid) would run up and AOE stun them. Most of the time it would be over. And you can't fear ward that.
DAoC had a similar flaw. Three realms, Midgard, Albion and Hibernia. The Mids would dominate most servers. Why? The had one class, Healer, who had an AoE Stun (it was called a Mezz at the time.) Stun the enemy group...and dead.
In PvP offense > defense.
10/31/2018 12:26 PMPosted by
Doxima
10/31/2018 11:52 AMPosted by
Nicho
...
The dps is meh. It does like ~110 damage every 3 seconds base while also costing 1000 mana. That's like... a third of your mana bar off one spell if not more. If you don't kill them before you oom which will be like another 5 casts then you are screwed. And if it gets cleansed the DP actually hurt you which it can by a lot of the alliance. Don't get me wrong it is good, against non-dwarf warriors, rogues, hunters, and locks. But any class that can heal through it will destroy you once you are oom.
Dwarf IMO is just better all around and has 3 extra defensive cooldowns that help against every class
You're just theorycrafting. I've been there, done that. Back in Vanilla Undead and Human were the most popular races. The 'dwarf' thing came later.
To me pvp is bgs because there was very little WPvP due to server lag. If dueling is your thing roll a rogue and be done with it.
But in the bgs in Vanilla my experience was Horde won 70-80% of the bgs, except for the later AV which was a pve mount race and I think Alliance had a shorter track.
It's simple really. Horde didn't have better players they simply had better pvp racials. PvP is similar to a street fight in that whoever takes the initiative and connects first usually wins. Not always, but most often. In AB usually 5-8 from each side would go to the BlackSmith node. A tauren (shaman or warrior or druid) would run up and AOE stun them. Most of the time it would be over. And you can't fear ward that.
DAoC had a similar flaw. Three realms, Midgard, Albion and Hibernia. The Mids would dominate most servers. Why? The had one class, Healer, who had an AoE Stun (it was called a Mezz at the time.) Stun the enemy group...and dead.
In PvP offense > defense.
Offense is the best defense. It was /is/ will always be like that
10/31/2018 12:26 PMPosted by
Doxima
10/31/2018 11:52 AMPosted by
Nicho
...
The dps is meh. It does like ~110 damage every 3 seconds base while also costing 1000 mana. That's like... a third of your mana bar off one spell if not more. If you don't kill them before you oom which will be like another 5 casts then you are screwed. And if it gets cleansed the DP actually hurt you which it can by a lot of the alliance. Don't get me wrong it is good, against non-dwarf warriors, rogues, hunters, and locks. But any class that can heal through it will destroy you once you are oom.
Dwarf IMO is just better all around and has 3 extra defensive cooldowns that help against every class
You're just theorycrafting. I've been there, done that. Back in Vanilla Undead and Human were the most popular races. The 'dwarf' thing came later.
To me pvp is bgs because there was very little WPvP due to server lag. If dueling is your thing roll a rogue and be done with it.
But in the bgs in Vanilla my experience was Horde won 70-80% of the bgs, except for the later AV which was a pve mount race and I think Alliance had a shorter track.
It's simple really. Horde didn't have better players they simply had better pvp racials. PvP is similar to a street fight in that whoever takes the initiative and connects first usually wins. Not always, but most often. In AB usually 5-8 from each side would go to the BlackSmith node. A tauren (shaman or warrior or druid) would run up and AOE stun them. Most of the time it would be over. And you can't fear ward that.
DAoC had a similar flaw. Three realms, Midgard, Albion and Hibernia. The Mids would dominate most servers. Why? The had one class, Healer, who had an AoE Stun (it was called a Mezz at the time.) Stun the enemy group...and dead.
In PvP offense > defense.
I'm not theory crafting tbh I have played multiple p servers against spriests and this is just what I witnessed.
I mean they both have strengths and weaknesses and one isn't actually better than the other I just personally think dwarves are better
I actually would rather have the human/dwarf spell than devouring plague even as shadow. But wotf is obviously amazing. That being said stoneform is also really good, I'd rather be dwarf than undead if we're talking min/max tbh.
Also for pvp shadow priest is pretty good but some people overrate it a lot. You have mana issues and struggle with multiple targets.
Shadow priest did quite well in PvP. There were some pretty infamous Undead SP I remember who made videos. My favorite I can’t find anymore... it was an undead/forsaken shadow priest, set to killswitch engage’s end of heartache, and he would face 1v2 or even 1v3 if I remember correctly.
Takuu was one of those amazing shadow priest.
Dude, you gained like 3 spells from classic to TBC.
It’s pretty similar.
Troll priest racial is sleeper OP.
1 Like
10/31/2018 11:31 AMPosted by
Moccoo
10/31/2018 11:30 AMPosted by
Doxima
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Sounds like you never played Vanilla.
Fear Ward was powerfull in PvP too man, I always thought the Undead Priest spell was weak sauce. It was a dot that heals you right?
It was so weak it was pointless.
But it was an extra DOT bruh!!! MOOR DPSz!!!
Dwarf was superior imo, but most of us won't be min maxing.
One thing for sure, it's going to be funny watching all these Undead casters getting absolutely obliterated by Rogues, and wishing they had gone Orc.
I remember at the end if Vanilla, I didn't even need stealth anymore, I'd just run up to anything and everything, one sinister strike usually killed most. I actually felt sorry for them =\
I guess that's why resilience became a thing.
I guess that's why resilience became a thing.
Oh buddy you better chill with the r word, you're gunna awake a lot of sleeping nerds mentioning that here.
To clear up some of the questions/misinformation in this thread...
1) gnomes can't be priests in vanilla
2) desperate prayer was not a "heal to full" ability, it healed a set amount like any other healing spell (~60% more than the same level flash heal) and couldn't be used in shadow form
3) priests going from vanilla to BC:
a) all get FW & Desperate Prayer rather than the separate racial spells
b) mass dispel, prayer of mending, and binding heal gained as base class abilities
c) talents added Pain Suppression, Circle of Healing, and Vampiric Touch
Also, yes shadow could do quite well in PvP; there was a long-running "You WILL melt faces in PvP" thread on the priest forum throughout vanilla with anecdotes, video links, tips, etc...
Guys, let me settle this.
Undead. Casting. Animation.
It's the only logical choice.
2 Likes
SPriest is by far the best solo WPvP spec in the game in vanilla, and a contender for the best overall 1v1 class along with Frost Mages and Rogues (assuming they burn everything). Undead and Dwarf are the best races for their respective factions.
10/31/2018 11:52 AMPosted by
Nicho
10/31/2018 11:38 AMPosted by
Doxima
...
Again it’s not the heal it’s the dps. The second dot is equal to the first. Two dots add to shadow weaving and increases odds on blackout. Throw in Mind Flay and the defense barrier and it’s a decent class - easy to kill others and you have good survivability.
The dps is meh. It does like ~110 damage every 3 seconds base while also costing 1000 mana. That's like... a third of your mana bar off one spell if not more. If you don't kill them before you oom which will be like another 5 casts then you are screwed. And if it gets cleansed the DP actually hurt you which it can by a lot of the alliance. Don't get me wrong it is good, against non-dwarf warriors, rogues, hunters, and locks. But any class that can heal through it will destroy you once you are oom.
Dwarf IMO is just better all around and has 3 extra defensive cooldowns that help against every class
Dwarf is only better vs. Rogues on account of Stoneform removing Blind, and you only need to use it assuming said Rogue uses Blind twice. Also, who uses Devouring Plague without Inner Focus? You're already at a statistical advantage being a Horde Priest because you don't have to deal with WotF in PvP. SW: Pain and Devouring Plague with adequate gear and ZHC is enough damage on their own to outright kill people in T2 without having to cast anything else, and it only gets more insane the better your gear. My T2.5/Naxx geared SPriest would nearly kill people in T3 with just those two abilities. All I had to do to seal the deal was Mind Blast them and they were donesies. Undead is the literal set it and forget it class/race combo.
10/31/2018 11:52 AMPosted by
Nicho
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The dps is meh. It does like ~110 damage every 3 seconds base while also costing 1000 mana. That's like... a third of your mana bar off one spell if not more. If you don't kill them before you oom which will be like another 5 casts then you are screwed. And if it gets cleansed the DP actually hurt you which it can by a lot of the alliance. Don't get me wrong it is good, against non-dwarf warriors, rogues, hunters, and locks. But any class that can heal through it will destroy you once you are oom.
Dwarf IMO is just better all around and has 3 extra defensive cooldowns that help against every class
Dwarf is only better vs. Rogues on account of Stoneform removing Blind, and you only need to use it assuming said Rogue uses Blind twice. Also, who uses Devouring Plague without Inner Focus? You're already at a statistical advantage being a Horde Priest because you don't have to deal with WotF in PvP. SW: Pain and Devouring Plague with adequate gear and ZHC is enough damage on their own to outright kill people in T2 without having to cast anything else, and it only gets more insane the better your gear. My T2.5/Naxx geared SPriest would nearly kill people in T3 with just those two abilities. All I had to do to seal the deal was Mind Blast them and they were donesies. Undead is the literal set it and forget it class/race combo.
Stoneform was great against way more than just rogues. Also yeah IF with DP is a given but that also means you aren’t getting that chance of a critted mindblast, but the fact still stands that it’s a 24 second dot that is easily dispellable given that it’s the only disease effect that’s going to be on you and can be taken off by a lot of abilities. Yes dwarves do have the issue of having to deal with undeads. But undeads have to deal with pallies which honestly I think is worse in a group setting. It’s all preferance tbh just depends if you want to be a defensive 1v1 player or an offensive 1v1 player. And without a doubt, with full cds up, and equal skill level, a dwarf priest should always beat an undead on paper. Given DP is useless against them, they both have fear breaks but fear ward is on a 30 seconds cd and dwarves get a nice 1600(?) instant no mana cost heal.
It depended on the player and gear you had. If you suck or no epics, no class will make you good.
dwarfs will ruin your day with stoneform.
10/31/2018 03:24 PMPosted by
Nicho
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Dwarf is only better vs. Rogues on account of Stoneform removing Blind, and you only need to use it assuming said Rogue uses Blind twice. Also, who uses Devouring Plague without Inner Focus? You're already at a statistical advantage being a Horde Priest because you don't have to deal with WotF in PvP. SW: Pain and Devouring Plague with adequate gear and ZHC is enough damage on their own to outright kill people in T2 without having to cast anything else, and it only gets more insane the better your gear. My T2.5/Naxx geared SPriest would nearly kill people in T3 with just those two abilities. All I had to do to seal the deal was Mind Blast them and they were donesies. Undead is the literal set it and forget it class/race combo.
Stoneform was great against way more than just rogues. Also yeah IF with DP is a given but that also means you aren’t getting that chance of a critted mindblast, but the fact still stands that it’s a 24 second dot that is easily dispellable given that it’s the only disease effect that’s going to be on you and can be taken off by a lot of abilities. Yes dwarves do have the issue of having to deal with undeads. But undeads have to deal with pallies which honestly I think is worse in a group setting. It’s all preferance tbh just depends if you want to be a defensive 1v1 player or an offensive 1v1 player. And without a doubt, with full cds up, and equal skill level, a dwarf priest should always beat an undead on paper. Given DP is useless against them, they both have fear breaks but fear ward is on a 30 seconds cd and dwarves get a nice 1600(?) instant no mana cost heal.
You're theorycrafting again, bud. PvP is bgs, not dueling. In Vanilla Pallys had no range, no speed and no stealth, so much of time Cleanse was not incoming in pvp. Besides, I can't count how many pallys I MC'd off the cliff at AB lm and Stormpike bridge in AV. For whatever reason, Dwarf rogues were a rarity in Vanilla, as most of the Alliance rogues were Night Elf and Human. That may change in Classic, who knows?
Stoneform is not much different than Cleanse apart from the armor boost, and it can be replicated Horde side with Restorative Potion (Alchemy) from the Badlands Reagent Run II quest. Of course most pvpers preferred the Free Action Potion, but the Restorative Potion is much closer to Stoneform.
Dwarf priests were good pvp healers, but they weren't the shadow priests that undead were. It's not about Dwarfs vs Undead in a duel, it's about which race makes a better SPriest for the goals of PvP.
And success in PvP is about burst.