How powerful are the various races in wow currently?

[Treng-wyrmrest-accord (Treng)]

This just squarely paints the Night Elves as stronger

This squarely paints Malfurion and Tyrande as power houses. the Night Elves have repeatedly required the aid of the Alliance to save their own lands.

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

This squarely paints Malfurion and Tyrande as power houses. the Night Elves have repeatedly required the aid of the Alliance to save their own lands.

This doesn’t address or dispute anything that I said.

[Yersynia-khazgoroth (Yersynia)]

The Horde got lucky and won because they got tipped off to a smuggling route to get behind the Night Elves, but the Horde had to bring fully equipped and veteran soldiers in eight to one ratios to fight tailors, food merchants, and innkeepers supporting Malfurion. And had Tyrande been there, they would have had to bring twelve to one.

Note how the two important names there are Malfurion and Tyrande, and the ratio disparity is directly linked conceptually to the presence of the racial leaders.

Nobody is saying Malfurion and Tyrande aren’t overpowered narrative dead ends - the Horde are used to that. The story even mentions the ‘Horde lost more’ comment that Akiyass keeps quoting expressly in the context of Malfurion’s participation - it’s no coincidence that these imbalances are always tied to the faction leaders in the cited texts, it’s a direct cause and effect statement. The Night Elves as a people are chumps like everyone else, only they’re the most thoroughly beaten chumps on the planet. They are the least qualified answer that can be given in this thread.

And while in-game depictions aren’t canon, the fact that the in-game events never reflect an 8-to-1 disparity even once is at least circumstantial evidence in support of the obvious: The Night elves got carried by their special units to that ratio. Without them it doesn’t happen. Hell, even in the books the Night Elves are getting out-stealthed by the Horde, assassinated in massive numbers by limited Horde agents and gutted in-game by a pair of saboteurs. These are not depictions of a superior fighting force.

I did War of Thorns. Those inkeepers and civilians were dying like dogs. The Night Elves had the home territory advantage, walking demigods and a wall of wisps that very nearly stopped the advance dead. The Horde pushed through, overcame every obstacle and stayed strong despite punishing losses thanks to ‘The Terror Of Darkshore’ and his wife.

Trying to claim some kind of conciliatory praise after the fact is, as we have pointed out, no different from Triple H blubbering about the hits he got in while the Undertaker stands tall.

You are quoting a statistic that isn’t relevant to the argument at hand, and that didn’t even affect the outcome.

The Night Elves don’t belong in this thread as examples of power.

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

A did you do the Darkshore Warfont? Because in-game the Horde get cleared out, and even by Word of God the Night Elves are stronger than they were during the War of the Thorns now:

From Terran Gregory at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEHc8le_Qpk&t=58m07s :

It’s very much Sentinel and Warden inspired. Right? And Wardens are, as we know, the keepers of vengeance. And while they were crated very specifically they’re still, you know, at their core a Night Elf institution. The concept of wielding vengeance as a weapon. And I felt that actually factored into this. This was just my feeling in putting this story together. If they are capable of being empowered by vengeance, then that means they’re more powerful after they lost Teldrassil than they were during the fight of Teldrassil.

Terran Gregory and Steve Danuser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhpGvgXyi-U&t=36m40s :

Terran Gregory: Kind of more recently at Blizzcon we revealed the "Terror of Darkshore" cinematic which was really exciting revisiting the Night Elves. You know, in all these years I'd never gotten to put Malfurion in a cinematic, right? And so, there was a lot of build up, a lot of expectation. I feel like the audience was definite after the events of Teldrassil feeling like the Night Elves needed to bear their fangs again. And that was principally the goal going into that cinematic, right? Is that we wanted to go back, we wanted to revisit those classic Warcraft III Night Elves. Reminded of their ferocity, that in the dark of the forest we should really be afraid of them. And that scene was a lot of fun to take, to bring through its paces.
Steve Danuser: Yeah, that was a great moment that really set the stage, again, for kind of setting up that new warfront that's in Tides of Vengeance of the fight over Darkshore, and it really got to help us introduce not only, you know, some gravel on Malfurion there, but, as you play through stuff, a new side for Tyrande, as well. And- to really- you know, it's- When you consider all that the Night Elves went through, as characters, seeing their home, not just taken from them, but burned to cinders, it was tough, and so we wanted to show how they were reacting to that. So we brought in, if you play through the Darkshore Warfront and the quests leading up to that, you see this murderers row* of great Night Elf characters coming back and seeing their different perspectives on how they're reacting to things. Seeing some of that payoff between Tyrande and Maiev after all these years and all this stuff in their background to see them kind of acknowledge that. But it was a great opportunity to, like you say, put some teeth back on the Night Elves, show their reactions to things. And, we thought, well, you know, that's a great moment. We have this transformation of Tyrande, that energy that she's calling upon, this dark side of Elune, how that infuses the other Night Elves in the warfront, hey, why not give that, as an option, to players. Allow them to tap into that power as well.
Terran Gregory: Character customization, yes.
Steve Danuser: Character customization.
Terran Gregory: And a lot of people were interested online in how exactly the players came to have the black eyes.
Steve Danuser: It is.
Terran Gregory: The darkened eyes.
Steve Danuser: Yes, the darkened eyes. And I think that speaks to the power of that ritual. This ancient ritual that Tyrande taps into - again, sorry, spoilers, but - Tyrande taps into that ritual, that calling upon- it's not even calling upon, she's demanding, she's like, "Give me this power. You turned your back on us, as those 'so-and-so's' took our home from us. Now you owe us. Give me this power." And that so infused her that it could change those Elves. So we wanted to give players that opportunity, to say, "You know what, I'm part of that, too. I stand with Tyrande," and show that off in their characters.
Terran Gregory: And if you'll notice at the warfront, all the NPCs that are Night Elves actually have the darkened eyes. So there's definitely a sense that, in proximity, fighting on behalf of the darkened element of Elune under the darkened moon, that's what happens. And whether or not the player has customized themselves, that of course is player choice, but I think in the story sense that any Night Elf that's fighting on behalf of Elune in that confrontation their eyes would be darkening.

*I was unfamiliar with the phrase “murderers row,” and looking it up it turns out to be the nickname given to the battling line up of the 1927 New York Yankees that were considered at the time to be one of the best line ups in history, and now the phrase is used for any particularly successful or powerful groups of people.

[Yersynia-khazgoroth (Yersynia)]

A did you do the Darkshore Warfont?

That thing not related to the discussion of the War of Thorns? Yes, I did.

even by Word of God the Night Elves are stronger than they were during the War of the Thorns

And as I’ve just been saying at length, this is not hard to do at all given they got themselves and their capital burned to ash in the WoT. The story had to have them get stronger because the story always has to swing back, so the writers literally had them be empowered by an outside entity, and have their second demigod show up. The narrative has to spare them, or else they can’t be playable.

This isn’t helping your case.

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

A did you do the Darkshore Warfont?

That thing not related to the discussion of the War of Thorns? Yes, I did.

Yeah, that thing that was the start of my conversation with you:

This isn’t the story of Night Elf victory, it’s the most shattering defeat a people have suffered since the Draenei got turned into pavement. The Horde got to destroy the Night Elves as hard as the game can actually realistically allow - as hard as they could get beat without actually being deleted, Red Team beat them.

Sure. In the prologue to the expansion. In the current chapter, Tides of Vengeance, the Night Elves are back, with Malfurion and Tyrande - which is a big factor, because in planning the War of the Thorns (which was designed as a surprise attack after a plot to lure the Night Elves’ armies to Silithus, so they ended up fighting a number of Night Elf civilians among the few remaining Night Elf soldiers) the Horde had planned to bring one and a half times as many forces as they had when it was only Malfurion if both of them were there, and on top of that the only person who could actually handle either Malfurion or Tyrande was Sylvanas, and she’s not present at Darkshore this time.

Here’s another fun fact. The thread is titled “How powerful are the various races in wow currently?” You know what’s the most current event? The Darkshore Warfront.

You know what you’re stuck on? A preliminary event that you admit the Night Elves are stronger now than they were then. You don’t have a case.

[Yersynia-khazgoroth (Yersynia)]

You know what you’re stuck on? A preliminary event that you admit the Night Elves are stronger now than they were then.

The only way they could be weaker than they were is if they were actually completely eradicated. This is like saying I am more lively than Ghengis Khan - the dude’s nothing but dust. It’s not a boast.

But sure, we can talk the Darkshore Warfront if you like.

The Night Elves finally brought their entire military, high priestess, warden forces, death-aspect goddess and allies to Darkshore - and they went back and forth with a bunch of Forsaken, goblin and dead elf nobodies for months. Their new superpowered leader was effortlessly dueled by an undead ranger until combined fan shrieking got a consolation buff added to him to assuage the fact that the Nelves are once again thoroughly unimpressive.

They were always going to be given back Darkshore, as much as I wanted to keep it. The fact that they did and it was still a glorified battleground changing hands for loot is about the most decrepit vengeance you can envisage.

And, to add a bit; They are ‘stronger than ever’, and have their vaunted army back, and yet they got stalled out by not the entire Horde, but a splinter force of one Horde race. Without its racial leader. Yikes. Maybe should have stuck with the innkeepers and drafted bakers, know what I’m saying?

GlOry To tHE KaLDorEi!

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

Having done the Darkshore Warfront several times now and only facing Sira in every event, I think it’s safe to assume the Malfurion/Nathanos versions of the warfront we heard datamined voice actor work for never got implemented.

Because of that, oddly enough, as far as a timeline of events, I think the Horde’s version of the warfront played out before the Alliance’s version, despite that the Alliance gameplay wise had their version of the warfront available before Horde players got their turn.

We know the Horde faces Night Warrior empowered Night Elves in their introductory questing while being lead by Nathanos, and we know Belmont is captured in the Alliance introductory questing, and freed in the Horde’s version of the warfront.

However, neither Nathanos or Belmont show up in the Alliance’s version of the warfront. And in the Alliance introductory questing we had just secured Bashal’Aran, only for the Horde to be holding it during out warfront and we have to take it back again.

Taking all this into consideration, I believe the timeline for the Darkshore warfront most logically would be:

1. The Alliance introductory quests from “On Whispered Winds” to up to Stage 8: The Night Warrior in “In Darkest Night”

2. Malfurion’s assault on the Horde caravan during the flashback in “Terror of Darkshore” before Malfurion meets up with Tyrande and the Alliance player during Stage 9: Nowhere to Run of “In Darkest Night”

3. Then the Horde introductory quests from “Trouble in Darkshore” up to “Where Hope Dies”, which would run concurrently with the Alliance questing from Stage 9: Nowhere to Run in “In Darkest Night” to Stage 11: The Queen’s Pawn.

4. Then the remaining Alliance questing in “In Darkest Night” to “We Are Coming” matches up with the Horde questing from “The Dead of Night” to “Warfront Preparations”, with the ending of “Terror of Darkshore” taking its place in the timeline here as well.

5. The Horde warfront, where the Horde saves Belmont from his capture in Stage 9: Nowhere to Run in “In Darkest Night” and takes Bashal’Aran from the Alliance forces that were there from Stage 7: Zenith in “In Darkest Night”

6. The Alliance warfront, taking Darkshore back from the Horde again.

Two additional conclusions I would make is that Nathanos himself might have been run off of Darkshore after the Horde’s warfront, probably by Tyrande and Malfurion, due to his involvement in the Battle of Dazar’alor. And additionally, where people speculated the the Night Elves and Gilneans departing for Darkshore would have weakened the Alliance’s efforts at Dazar’alor, this did not seem to be the case, as both Night Elves and Gilnean forces contributed to the feint in Nazmir that allowed the frontal assault on Dazar’alor to be successful.

[Treng-wyrmrest-accord (Treng)]

This doesn’t address or dispute anything that I said.

Your post paints the civilians as being a central reason for the Horde’s difficulty in the field.

They were not.

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

Your post paints the civilians as being a central reason for the Horde’s difficulty in the field.

They were not.

No, my posts paint Malfurion only supported by civilians causing the Horde their difficulties in the field. Tyrande and Malfurion supported by their actual army is what the Horde has to face now.

[Yersynia-khazgoroth (Yersynia)]

Two additional conclusions I would make

Fanfiction. Got it.

I’m done following injured pride around in a circle. All the evidence that matters is smoldering on a skybox off the coast.

Last word is all yours. Don’t squander it now.

Edit: Am reposting this here because you may have missed it when I edited it in above.

And, to add a bit; They are ‘stronger than ever’, and have their vaunted army back, and yet they got stalled out by not the entire Horde, but a splinter force of one Horde race. Without its racial leader. Yikes. Maybe should have stuck with the innkeepers and drafted bakers, know what I’m saying?

[Treng-wyrmrest-accord (Treng)]

No, my posts paint Malfurion only supported by civilians causing the Horde their difficulties in the field. Tyrande and Malfurion supported by their actual army is what the Horde has to face now.

Oh, okay. I misread, I guess.

Yeah Malfurion’s boss hog.

I sure wish the Horde had a boss hog racial leader.

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

@Yersynia-khazgoroth

Last word is all yours. Don’t squander it now.

Edit: Am reposting this here because you may have missed it when I edited it in above.

Really? Last words, huh? Want to add in a few more edits? Sure looks like you want to keep talking with me.

This actually reminds me of the last time you ran away from this conversation:

Yersynia

The elves are defeated. They’re next to extinct. I get that it’s poweful but nothing in the story indicated that this was going to be a momentous front in the war - the War of Thorns is over. And the outcome reflects that.

Edit: If she was meant to be so powerful, why is the zone now a warfront - a stalemate that never ends?

And what do we have datamined now? An end to that “stalemate” where the Night Elves win.

And you also gave me the last word in that thread, too:

Amadis

Yersynia

Amadis, I meant the players talked it up. The devs haven’t done !@#$ to make this matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0WKnDcvSzE&t=5m49s

Ion Hazzikostas: We also have a new Warfront. As I mentioned, the Alliance suffered some heavy blows in the initial events of Battle for Azeroth, but now it's time for them to strike back. As so this is actually going to be the Night Elven force and the Alliance as a whole looking to retake Darkshore. Looking to reestablish a foothold in Kalimdor within striking distance of Orgrimmar. Looking to reclaim their ancestral homelands.

[Galien-thorium-brotherhood (Galien)]

okay that’s it I’ve checked multiple times the Night elves don’t have Militas you did have the bulk of the ENTIRE army that’s why it was fought to a stalemate because the ships came back and you are not the only race to stand alone against an entire faction the Orcs have done this along with a few others that i’m not going to get into. The honest to god rating for the night elves is 7.5 out of 10.
Elite troops druids and ancients give the night elves a huge edge in their own homelands as well as aboard however due to smaller numbers and a racial stubbornness the night elves frequently bite off more than they can chew.

[Darrethy-wyrmrest-accord]

I’d say the Forsaken are pretty high up right now. They had help from the rest of the Horde, but they were the principle defenders of Undercity against the combined armies of the Alliance and while they lost their capital, they don’t seem to have lost the surrounding territories nor did they lose many civilians. Sepulcher, Deathknell, Andorhal, Tarren Mill, and the Defilers base in the Arathi were not destroyed and they continue to have a strong grip on the Northern EK.

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

did have the bulk of the ENTIRE army

The Kaldorei army was in SIlithus, that’s why Sylvanas attacked when she did. The Kaldorei army not being there was the whole point of the plan.

the ships came back

The ships that came back was described as a token force of the main fleet. Not the full fleet.

Elite troops druids

Who were not there, save for Malfurion. In fact, Sylvanas and Saurfang has said if Tyrande AND Malfurion were there, they attack would have been a complete failure. That’s from A Good War.

[Galien-thorium-brotherhood (Galien)]

This is a thread about how powerful are the various races right now not about how awesome the night elves are. I personally love the blood elves i think they are a powerful race in their own right but even still i can see that with all of the other races in the game we aren’t top 5 and neither are the night elves. You have turned this thread as you do with all threads into an annoying night elf fan page, so for the love of god rate the races you thing should be tope 3 with actual reasoning and not super fandom or leave.

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

how powerful are the various races right now not about how awesome the night elves are.

I happen to think the Night Elves are powerful because they are awesome… You seem a little salty about them. Why did you make this thread if you were going to be so adverse to certain answers?

neither are the night elves.

I disagree.

You have turned this thread as you do with all threads into an annoying night elf fan page

I answered your question honestly. You don’t have to agree with me. You don’t even need to respond.

Top 3 most powerful races?

Night Elves
Dwarf
Uuuuum… Gnomes.

[Galien-thorium-brotherhood (Galien)]

You can’t be serious right now? There are a multitude of races who could defeat the night elves. The night elves don’t have the numbers to win a long war against many of the power house races, if you can’t sustain losses you erode to nothing. Maybe if you had ALL of the various Elves under one faction you’d have an argument, but as it stands it’s a flimsy weak argument.

[Darrethy-wyrmrest-accord]

Galien, this is a lost cause. Though for the record I agree with your point to a degree, Night Elves are no longer their own faction and while the Night Elves gave a good fight at the War of Thorns…they are still only just establishing a foothold in Darkshore after losing almost all their turf.

Just trying to save you from beating your head against a brick wall.