How poor do you have to be to want dual spec?

[Malphaes-grobbulus]

yes a group issue that can prevent dual spec from solving tank crisis

[Ëmpathy-mankrik]

@Malphaes-grobbulus

dual spec from solving tank crisis

Bro I’m on like 8 different threads saying that dual spec will never solve the tank issue, using LK’s dual spec and LFD tool as examples because both those systems didn’t solve it, and LFD provides a lot, and I mean a lot, to fix the tank issue, so dual spec inherently, by itself, still won’t, because even with more tools it didn’t fix the issue.

I’m just saying that the example you’re using isn’t a dual spec problem though. People do this already without dual spec. It’s entirely a player issue.

[Gongfuren-firetree]

You do realize that it’s more of a convenience thing than anything else right? Ie: not having to go to the city trainers, drop gold for the re-spec, then make sure you spend points correctly etc, and then travel back to the dungeon you were going to run?

It’s more annoyance than anything else to be honest.

[Stopdotnlol-myzrael]

@Ëmpathy-mankrik

Combat swords is straight dog water in pvp. Good luck using any rogue strength in pvp when you have literally nothing that benefits those strengths. If you pvp as non hemo, you’re literally useless.

That’s kind of point. Your character is not supposed to play optimally at everything. If your focus is arena, spec for it and keep in mind you will be performing suboptimally in a raid, and vice versa.

@Sádist-illidan

It’s less to do with gold and more to do with efficiency and convenience.

You’re right about that: the convenience of being free from the consequences of their decisions. The game doesn’t work that way.

[Ëmpathy-mankrik]

@Stopdotnlol-myzrael

If your focus is arena, spec for it and keep in mind you will be performing suboptimally in a raid, and vice versa.

Literally called respecc’ing.

Like I don’t get your point. You say that I don’t need an optimal pvp spec, but I say you’re wrong, and then you respond with basically “don’t respec, just play as is.”

I’m going to respec if I want to switch what content I’m doing.

[Stopdotnlol-myzrael]

@Ëmpathy-mankrik

I’m going to respec if I want to switch what content I’m doing.

You DON’T need an optimal pvp spec. When I queue for a BG, it a big banner doesn’t pop up, blocking me from entering the queue until I respec.

Respecing to optimize your play in pvp is a decision you make, no one is forcing you to do it. But that decision has consequences, like a lot gold worth of consequences. What I’m saying is that players should be prepared to deal with the consequences of their decisions, rather than asking Blizzard to change the game so they don’t have to.

[Arielba-sulfuras]

@Ëmpathy-mankrik

one doesn’t need a pvp spec to pvp effectively

that is true

effectively =/= optimally

[Bearyalln-tichondrius]

Hmm bad take, you should be able to play the game. You play a class, not a spec. Why are you against people playing 2 aspects of the game?

[Ëmpathy-mankrik]

@Stopdotnlol-myzrael

You DON’T need an optimal pvp spec.

Then go be worthless in your bg.

I’ll easily pay a 1000g respec fee.

@Stopdotnlol-myzrael

Respecing to optimize your play in pvp is a decision you make, no one is forcing you to do it. But that decision has consequences, like a lot gold worth of consequences. What I’m saying is that players should be prepared to deal with the consequences of their decisions, rather than asking Blizzard to change the game so they don’t have to.

hey kid, I’m anti-dual spec as well.

Doesn’t change the fact that rogue needs to respec if they want to do literally anything in a bg.

While it’s true that I don’t need to respec to enter a bg, which is such a mongoloid statement to make in the first place because we’re all adults here and should be able to easily infer what “need” is in this context, but you want to be a child and play the word game, I will respec before doing any pvp. Why? Because I’m not worthless and will contribute to my team.

[Stopdotnlol-myzrael]

@Bearyalln-tichondrius

Why are you against people playing 2 aspects of the game?

I’m not. You can roll two different characters. Or pay the respec fees over and over. Whatever floats your boat. What I am against is people doing these things consequence-free. The game isn’t designed that way.

[Kumasama-westfall]

@Bearyalln-tichondrius

Why are you against people playing 2 aspects of the game?

Must remove all fun from the game. Optimization is all there is.

[Bearyalln-tichondrius]

So there is a feature that works perfectly, but your response is someone should have to devote hundreds of hours into having 2 of the same class so they can play 2 specs?

It’s 100g to respec, so people can’t just pvp in their free time, you have to coordinate with your friend when you guys both have a chunk of days without raid times, so you can get games in as the proper spec.

No one wants to spend 100g to respec for 10 matches.

It’s a video game why do there have to be “consequences” that make the game less fun, and people able to play less aspects

[Arielba-sulfuras]

@Ëmpathy-mankrik

Doesn’t change the fact that rogue needs to respec if they want to do literally anything in a bg.

the reason people keep thinking you’re in favor of dual spec is because you have a retail mindset. you seem to think there is nothing in between “unable to do literally anything” and “100% perfectly optimal”. this is the mindset that led to a bunch of convenience features that ultimately gave us retail.

[Serraticx-sargeras]

PvE combat rogue is basically useless in bg’s and actually useless in rated arena, so he has a point

[Kumasama-westfall]

Just incentivizes people to buy gold online.

Also incentivizes people to eventually push for a WoW Token.

[Arielba-sulfuras]

you also have the retail mindset, mr. gnome hunter.

[Audaylon-benediction]

if no one wants to respec for 10 matches then why do we need dual spec? just do your 10 matches as the other spec.

[Stopdotnlol-myzrael]

@Bearyalln-tichondrius

It’s a video game why do there have to be “consequences” that make the game less fun, and people able to play less aspects

That’s a purely subjective standard you’re using to judge how “fun” a game is.

Let’s compare this to say, Final Fantasy 12, and I apologize if you’re already familiar with that game but I’ll explain it for the sake of argument, so feel free to skip this part.

In that game, each character’s abilities are tied to the license board, and the more licenses they learn, the more abilities and equipment they can use. It’s possible for someone to learn every single license in the game, and thus be good at everything.

Later, they released a new version of the game called International Zodiac Job version. In this version, characters can only learn the licenses of the jobs you select for them, and those decisions are permanent, so you have to think carefully before you decided.

So the difference between the two is that in one game, your decisions don’t really matter, and in the other one, they matter quite a lot. Neither one is objectively better than the other, it’s only a matter of preference. TBCC is a game that follows the latter. If you prefer the former, that’s fine, but don’t expect changes to be made to suit your tastes. Adapt to the game, don’t expect the game to be adapted to you.

[Ëmpathy-mankrik]

@Arielba-sulfuras

retail mindset.

@Arielba-sulfuras

“unable to do literally anything” and “100% perfectly optimal”

Meanwhile in OG TBC, only those who had the most optimal comps and set ups saw KJ.

Lol k.

@Arielba-sulfuras

this is the mindset that led to a bunch of convenience features that ultimately gave us retail.

No, it isn’t. Natural progression and QOL to keep the game fresh and accessible did.

If wow had no positive changes, it would have died post TBC, and I don’t mean the “wow is dying wahhh”, I mean actual dead, like every other MMO.

Changes are needed to keep the game going, but those same changes can push away the older playerbase. It’s a double edged sword.

Min maxxing didn’t do it.

And for rogue pvp, combat swords is actually useless. If you haven’t done it, then actually just shut up on the topic, because combat swords and any build with a decent amount of points into sub will preform 100% differently when in pvp.

[Bearyalln-tichondrius]

@Audaylon-benediction

if no one wants to respec for 10 matches then why do we need dual spec? just do your 10 matches as the other spec.

What are you talking about, it’s rated arena aka competitive.

You pretty much need to respec, and my entire point is that with the respec cost, you pretty much have to carve out time where you can maximize how long you are pvp spec between raids.

Your comment is complete nonsense, from someone that has never played rated arena at a level where anything matters