If it's cleared faster because of better players, there's nothing you can do about that (maybe?).
If it's cleared faster because you don't need a gear check (Patchwerk), Classic needs some retuning.
Yeah, that was my point. People like to shout "THE GAME'S SO DUMBED DOWN NOWADAYS FOR LEGION LFR BABIES!" but actually a lot of old timers are still here, and they are incredibly experienced.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "the playerbase is better overall now than it was back then" but the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. Classic is going to have a lot of old timers on it, and they are going to walk into BWL knowing exactly what to do.
This is actually very true - or at least in my experience used to be true. The big X factor is how many of those people will still play at some degree. I would honestly love it if it happened, along with new retail players that are willing to learn a new game, and private server players who are willing to share potential new "tech".
Assuming it's available on launch. Quicker than you'd think. There are ways to cheese progression if they do not time gate. I'd give it at most 2 months.
They'll have their full raid group at 60 by the end of week two. Cheese dungeons and raids, get some BiS.... and grind it to Naxx.
No, they won’t. Guilds without full T2/2.5 gear in 30/40 of their raiders will barely be scrapping by the gargoyle trash spawns, let alone Patchwerk. It’s not about skill as much as it is about how long it will take that many people to get the necessary gear.
Seriously if you think Naxx40 is going to be cleared in 1-2 months after launch, you are making it painfully obvious you never touched the game back then. I’m not trying to be mean, but don’t talk about things you don’t understand. I would imagine that at 1.5-2 months after launch, we might get some top guilds beginning to farm BWL in one night. Another month or two after that, AQ. Another month or two after that, Naxx40. Remember that it took Nihilum (who were all geared to the damn teeth from farming AQ) 3 months to clear it, and they knew what they were doing.
A lot of people seem to be completely oblivious of, or simply ignoring the various gearchecks that old naxxramas had. It doesn't matter how much "better" people are at the game nowadays, nor does the " content undertuned for 1.11 /1.12 talents" -argument apply here as the raid was meant for that patch.
You still need the dps for patchwerk and thaddius (pretty much full bwl/aq40 gear on whole raid). No, being better at the game doesn't increase the damage of your 1-2 spell rotation by 300%, nor does being better at the game make your tanks not get oneshot by hateful strikes without sufficient gear. You also still need 4p t3 on all your tanks for the horsemen, and that doesn't drop the way welfare legendaries do nowadays.
And what takes even more time to farm, is crafting the frost resistance gear for 40 people for Sapphiron, which requires gathering the frozen runes from boss chambers in Naxx. 3-6 runes per boss. Even if you were able to clear all the wings from first week, you'll be getting 39-78 runes per week. The frost set costs 20-22 runes to craft for each player. From that you can conclude it takes over 3 months by average, unless you buy more of those runes from lesser guilds that are only able to kill the few first bosses (many hardcore guilds did this to speed up their progression). And before some mythic hero suggests simply outhealing the aura.. no, you don't. Healers actually could go oom in vanilla, especially with the blue gear that some people seem to expect naxx to be cleared with within a week.
If they re-tune raids, it will make things as they were. Hybrids healed for a reason in Vanilla. Private servers are skewed in that everything dies in 2 seconds so any spec goes.
Arcane Power mages in greens.
That's plain stupid.
/shrug it's no stupider than vanilla's original design.
I currently play on a private server and we just killed KT took us about 5-6 months to get though naxx, that's raiding 3 times a week for 4 hours a pop.
we are a pretty good skilled bunch of raiders, we always use full cons & flasks, and some members are very knowledgeable about their class, we had a few hiccups along the way but we got there in the end.
Fastest possible Naxx clear, assuming all content is available upon release.
A guild recruits 400 players ready to be dedicated to ensuring their guild (not necessarily them individually) has world first, on the grounds that they'll be clearing it a week or 2 later)
Those 400 people split into 40-10 mans, 80-5 mans, 26-15 Mans, 20-20 mans and lastly 10-40 mans.
I apologize if that's hard to read. All of those groups have 40 people spread among them that they are funneling all the gear to, the clear everything on all the groups the first week it's available. The 40 people they put all the gear on are going to clear naxx within hours of it's availability, if not of their completion of all the lead up to content once because all the gear got funneled.
You originally funnel to 200 or so and the number of people clearing gets smaller as you get up to BWL - AQ because some of the geared people will have to combine together to keep moving through those raids.
Disclaimer: This is what I look at as fastest possible, it's not the most likely scenario because as people who played vanilla will tell you, roster-ing 40 people was rough, someone's sitting here talking about 400. But if you could get that many people behind the banner of we are world first, and those people have the time and dedication to make it happen even if they may not be in the direct kill, it is possible.
I guess so but you'd have to factor in leveling 400 people to max, competing with thousands of players and taking 4+ days to reach 60.
If they re-tune raids, it will make things as they were. Hybrids healed for a reason in Vanilla. Private servers are skewed in that everything dies in 2 seconds so any spec goes.
Arcane Power mages in greens.
That's plain stupid.
/shrug it's no stupider than vanilla's original design.
Stop trolling. Seriously. You're just a whiny kid. I'm done responding to you.
A lot of people seem to be completely oblivious of, or simply ignoring the various gearchecks that old naxxramas had. It doesn't matter how much "better" people are at the game nowadays, nor does the " content undertuned for 1.11 /1.12 talents" -argument apply here as the raid was meant for that patch.
You still need the dps for patchwerk and thaddius (pretty much full bwl/aq40 gear on whole raid). No, being better at the game doesn't increase the damage of your 1-2 spell rotation by 300%, nor does being better at the game make your tanks not get oneshot by hateful strikes without sufficient gear. You also still need 4p t3 on all your tanks for the horsemen, and that doesn't drop the way welfare legendaries do nowadays.
And what takes even more time to farm, is crafting the frost resistance gear for 40 people for Sapphiron, which requires gathering the frozen runes from boss chambers in Naxx. 3-6 runes per boss. Even if you were able to clear all the wings from first week, you'll be getting 39-78 runes per week. The frost set costs 20-22 runes to craft for each player. From that you can conclude it takes over 3 months by average, unless you buy more of those runes from lesser guilds that are only able to kill the few first bosses (many hardcore guilds did this to speed up their progression). And before some mythic hero suggests simply outhealing the aura.. no, you don't. Healers actually could go oom in vanilla, especially with the blue gear that some people seem to expect naxx to be cleared with within a week.
If the Vanilla experience is preserved, clearing Naxx will take a while. If the private server experience is preserved, then it'll be a dumb face roll. Because the first couple "tiers" of raiding is irrelevant and a waste of time.
Assuming it's available on launch. Quicker than you'd think. There are ways to cheese progression if they do not time gate. I'd give it at most 2 months.
They'll have their full raid group at 60 by the end of week two. Cheese dungeons and raids, get some BiS.... and grind it to Naxx.
2 months?? Are you high?? lmao even with best RNG possible in raids that is not even remotely possible. Considering tanks need fire resist for trash after garr in MC and rag, Onyxia Hide Cloaks in BWL for the entire raid which requires multiple Ony kills lol..Full nature resist sets on the entire raid in AQ40 and frost resist for naxx?
As stated before patchwork and a few other fights were impossible without proper gear.. it wasn’t a matter of skill it was a gear check.. if you had the proper gear is was possible but still difficult if you didn’t have the gear it WAS NOT possible to down the boss
Gear played a very big part in being able to do content back then. Knowing the fights was only half the battle and gearing took a long time so considering how long it will take to gear up an entire raid and 8 tanks for the 4 horsemen I would guess a while
If all the raids are out at launch, MC, ZG, AQ20, Ony will be on farm within a month. If they are really going crazy they can prob run 2 copies of Ony. They will prob be farming Naxx trash(fury, prot and rogues have naxx weapons). A lot of the dps checks are made significantly easier with an optimized comp, no hybrid dps. Razorgore is almost pure mechanics, if they can get past vael they are farming BWL up to Chromag early.
Clearing all of those raids for over a month with a proper loot council and you will be making significant progress in AQ40 and Naxx.
I am guessing close to 3 months if it takes over 4 for KT to die I will be surprised.
If they time gate the raids each raid will die within 24 hours of it opening.
If all the raids are out at launch, MC, ZG, AQ20, Ony will be on farm within a month. If they are really going crazy they can prob run 2 copies of Ony. They will prob be farming Naxx trash(fury, prot and rogues have naxx weapons). A lot of the dps checks are made significantly easier with an optimized comp, no hybrid dps. Razorgore is almost pure mechanics, if they can get past vael they are farming BWL up to Chromag early.
Clearing all of those raids for over a month with a proper loot council and you will be making significant progress in AQ40 and Naxx.
I am guessing close to 3 months if it takes over 4 for KT to die I will be surprised.
If they time gate the raids each raid will die within 24 hours of it opening.
Let's assume proper original difficulty like tuning ok? Not that private server nonsense.
Back in the day, yes everyone needed an Ony cloak and as much fire resist as possible. Not just 2 people like these days lol.
If all the raids are out at launch, MC, ZG, AQ20, Ony will be on farm within a month. If they are really going crazy they can prob run 2 copies of Ony. They will prob be farming Naxx trash(fury, prot and rogues have naxx weapons). A lot of the dps checks are made significantly easier with an optimized comp, no hybrid dps. Razorgore is almost pure mechanics, if they can get past vael they are farming BWL up to Chromag early.
Clearing all of those raids for over a month with a proper loot council and you will be making significant progress in AQ40 and Naxx.
I am guessing close to 3 months if it takes over 4 for KT to die I will be surprised.
If they time gate the raids each raid will die within 24 hours of it opening.
Let's assume proper original difficulty like tuning ok? Not that private server nonsense.
Back in the day, yes everyone needed an Ony cloak and as much fire resist as possible. Not just 2 people like these days lol.
I remember one weekend farming turtles in Azshara (or was it Tanaris?) for some fire resist neck piece. I eventually got it.
I think people are seriously underestimating four things: --How dedicated the top guilds are (split runs) --How much anachronistic info they have now --How bad itemization was in vanilla --How many times people have been able to practice speed leveling -> clearing Naxx over the last 15 years
Ask yourself this: If Legion were re-released today, how long would it take Method to re-clear a nerfed M-Kil'Jaeden knowing all the strats and that the optimal comp is something like 2 guardian druids, a resto shaman, a warlock, and 16 rogues? It took them like 8 days to do a harder version without knowing that. (But they did have BiS Nighthold gear.)
If Naxx is available from the get-go: I would be impressed but not surprised if it's down in the second reset.
If it is content gated and everyone is in BiS AQ40 gear: 2 hours tops.
My understanding is Nef can be cheesed via standing behind the throne. And any guilds this dedicated will certainly be willing to buy cloaks off friendly guilds in exchange for Naxx carries later.
There may be other problems, such as surviving Patchwerk and getting 8 tanks capable of surviving 4HM, as I believe the only way to do it is to either have the tier bonus or 8 tanks, but not necessarily both.
..............Actually Sapphiron might be the real problem...there isn't frost resist gear anywhere but Naxx, is there?
Source: Post 62 of : https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2394837-Four-Horsemen-Discussion-Why-was-it-hard/page4
There's this myth floating around that vanilla's content was "easy", spewed by people who have no idea. They're in for a surprise.
There are guilds on private servers who already cleared Naxxramas multiple times on different servers, yet on every new server it still takes them at least a solid half a year to pull it off again, even though they know all the mechanics already. Even if the core raid is finally properly geared and knows the fights, things don't always go smoothly, far from it. Any minor mistake or miscalculation easily means a wipe and even veterans commit those more than they would like to admit.