How is Convoke still fair?

I just had a Boomkin Druid in PvP Convoke on me. While I have 29% verse he hit me with a 22,573 Starsurge, then another 21,950 Starsurge equaling 44,523 damage in the first x2 spells of the Convoke. I know they removed Full Moon from Convoke but how is Starsurge any different in 1 shotting people? Starsurge needs to be removed from Convoke or Convoke just removed all together I think.

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It’s not Starsurge alone doing it. Thanks to the way crit works:

CA + BoAT Leggo + SS Crit + soulbind mastery boost = insane damage. Even without convoke, you can still get those 20k+ Starsurges back to back.

Convoke isn’t the issue.

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I wonder if they’ve considered making CA more like berserk in that it could buff builders instead of spenders. Seems like that would fix the issue.

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Well, it doesn’t necessarily “buff” the spenders. It just puts you into both eclipse states, and you make the most of that.

Technically CA does buff the builders, but only in the same sense that it buffs the spenders

CA does give double bonus to spenders though. So changes say a 16k starsurge crit to a 20k one.

But this is basically like a lot of us said. Full moon was never the problem, it’s just what got all the attention by people that didn’t understand how convoke works. All removing full moon did was mean that people died in 2 seconds instead of instantly (when full moon hit at the same time as a starsurge).

I agree that removing the instant death now allows counterplay such as bubbling between big starsurges, but it was all edge case stuff anyway.

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If CA’s bonus damage and crit only applied to wrath / starfire then you wouldn’t have insane star surges during covoke.

Berserk doesn’t buff ferocious bite and while combining it with covoke is powerful its not nearly as powerful as it would be if those bites were getting buffed. No one is on the forums whining about feral convoke accidently killing people.

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Except making that change would require re-tuning the entire spec including leggo’s and covenants.

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Can you explain that to me? If it’s from double dipping in Mastery, I feel I’ve got the understanding of double dipping wrong.

Not really. It would lower moonkin damage for sure but considering they are trading places for top dps in all aspects of the game that’s probably a warranted reduction and if it’s too much theres always buffs.

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Starsurge does Astral damage, which takes into account bonus lunar and solar damage, so when you have CA giving you both it double dips

Yeah I understand that. But it was my knowledge that double dipping means that it’ll just take the damage bonus of whatever is highest.

So in the event that a mob has some sort of check against the solar damage, that it would take the full power of lunar and apply it.

Not necessarily double up on the damage

Nope, spenders just get the damage bonus from both eclipses during CA. It’s the only reason it’s a strong CD.

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Without CA convoke is pretty lackluster tbh

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I was under the assumption it actually doubled the bonus, so if you have 20% mastery in CA your astral spells get a 40% bonus

so basically what your saying is, I’m not happy until convoke does no damage to me at all and I can continue playing poorly, ignoring my interupts…got it…

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Yeah I’m not 100% sure honestly :stuck_out_tongue: which is why I asked. Balance isn’t my forte. I learn it in the beginning to get a little better than normal grasp of it so I can do decent if I need to be Balance in a pinch, but that’s about it

A lot of stuff has to be lined up in advance of triggering that Convoke, which gives you several GCDs to react and shut it down. For every successful Convoke kill, there are probably ten convokes spoiled by attentive opponents.

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randomly got convoked in the air flying in azeroth, 3 star surges, 31% versatility and 4 seconds later, a dead rogue :slight_smile:

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Yeah. That RNG might get you once every 3 minutes . I’m sure it’s frustrating to be on the other end of it, but for every time that happens there’s 20 more where convoke is a dud. Star surges are either too far apart, the spell gets eaten by interrupt or totem, defensives save the day, etc. there’s counterplay.

Compared to a fire mages combustion, which they have complete control over on a much shorter CD, it doesn’t feel that bad to me. Or Paladin wings + divine toll. Or enhancement shaman boom boom. I mean, almost every spec in the game has a controlled way to do setup and burst someone in a global.

If they nerf convoke, they’ll need to nerf every burst combo and return to a “rot” PvP style, where CC chains and spread damage are king again, basically flip the entire meta.

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Starsuge gets the bonus from both eclipses. CA/Incarnation makes both eclipses be up at the same time giving all the mastery bonus to starsurge twice.

The Soulbind adds 400 mastery when pressing convoke wich again is doubled with CA/incarn up)

And also theres a conduit that makes convoke do 20% more dmg.

And all this (2x offensive cd’s on 2 and 3 minute cd) can be countered by 1 interupt, 1 bubble/vanish/cloak/spellreflect/vanish/…run around a corner, blind, stun, incapasitate, fear.

Convoke is good against bad players, but bad against good players.

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