How do you impose limits on your IC magic abilities?

Wyrmrest Accord
21

i RP a lot of death knights so here’s how i do death knight magic:

death knights are walking soldiers. they are a man made into a sword. they know only one move: cut. a death knight knowing other things is something that they themselves have specialised in, but they are naturally very good at fighting.

my old character, otielle, was very good at fighting. she had a very murdery attitude, and she was also very clever and well-learned when it came to necromancy and theology. she studied that kind of stuff and was a natural savant. to cut in the opposite direction, she was also totally and utterly inept when it came to all other forms of magic. frost magic? she can summon remorseless winter and fling ice lances like a mage. fire magic? she can’t do it. it burns her. necromancy? she had a very wide net and could raise many lesser creatures or a few stronger creatures, and even free-willed undead of her own. light magic? even though she knows the theory, she can’t put it into practice (since she wont believe it’ll work).

i also kept in mind the fact that otielle is a PC and has “PC power scaling” that is, all PCs are equal to every other PC unless their player defines them as weaker. “power” is always a dumb thing to measure in fantasy, since it generally just means “ability to kill”, but otielle’s ability to kill was equal to all others (even if i OOC thought she would be able to outclass her opponents). just use rolls, or decide on the outcome beforehand, or know your partner really really well.

in truth, i find that power is really something based on the situation. when otielle was called upon to do necromancy she was the best among her peers, and always the authority. when it came time to do the light, she could offer theory but not practice. when it came to arcane magics, she stood there and said things she thought were smart but was also wrong.

oh! i was meant to talk about death knights and their magic. i should bring up my new DK, yargachin.

yargachin is an acolyte. he is actually fairly weak. he doesn’t really get his magic yet. he can do frosty stuff and summon remorseless winter, or empower his attacks with cold, but nothing as sophisiticated as path of ice, for example. he can do blood magic to bolster his own flesh and make him fight harder, better, faster, stronger, but nothing really beyond that. where i bridge the gap is that he has a floating sword named stabitha who is sapient and will fight with him, so it’s always a 2vX with him. his scaling is based on being an apprentice - essentially. he doesn’t know how to use the magic that suffuses him, so his use of it is crude. he has nothnig more than the ability to wildly flail, even if he’s no slouch in a fight because his sword is stabbing you while he attacks as well.

ultimately, though? i haven’t done a bar fight in forever. they’re bad and awful and never work. RP fights should only be done around those you know very well, or else it’ll devolve into petty bickering.

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22

I restrict my powers limits by the class I play and avoid powers that are world-shaping.

For example; Wenzli is a medic in Mechagon. She isn’t as renown or powerful as a priest like Stormwind’s or Ironforges. But her medicinal prowess extends to more medical means than physical. She excels in healing broken bones or flesh wounds. But she cannot shape the world or bind undead due to her inexperience to such powers.

In characters like Raquella; my Blood Elf Sunreaver Priest. She has arcane, pyromancy, and holy powers. But she’s been a prisoner for some time before the release from Khadgar’s rule. She holds a great hatred for Dalaran and the Alliance; and thus she uses a mixtures of powers. Jack of Trades, master of little. Having more fire leaning efforts.

The big thing about magical characters is to recognize and limit them from being world-impacting. Try to limit abilities that can shape Azeroth or force other players to act on your own will.

24

I don’t really get into IC fights. Not my style. But I do limit myself so that every solution that uses magic presents a unique opportunity. I’ve written entire novels of notes regarding canon, headcanon speculation, etc. on the mechanisms of Warcrafts magic systems over the years. While many have been nullified by retcons, I still follow several principals;

First and foremost, Zogdor is very old. While some magi age well enough and use magic to keep themselves from keeling over, Zog does not. His body is brittle, and while the power he can amass at once is pretty great, he cannot shape it in ways he could when he was healthier. Spells will sometimes cause pain to recoil through his body, and as such, he limits his channeling to what can be held in a catalyst, a non-living object to store and channel one’s mana and to evocate mana from surrounding leylines into. This means his magic output will be both limited by the quality of his weapon he carries, as well as limited TO being channeled through the weapon he carries. He CAN channel arcane power through his physical form and in great amounts, but he runs high risk in doing so.

Another limiting factor is his own personal disciplines on magic. He is of the firm belief that curiosity and discovery should be tempered by self-control. The path to power is too appealing a road to travel down with reckless abandon, and to set laws unto ones self that serve to make one stop and think instills the habits necissary to never be overcome by a list for power over wisdom. As such, any task that can be performed without magic should be, barring time constraints, severe inconvenience (pain, obscene expense) and what have you.

Additionally, when RPing a mage in general, I find that accomplishing any fantastical task such as opening a portal or conjuring a wall of ice to block an exit should come with drawbacks or limitations. I don’t feel the average mage should even realistically know how to use portals, as often even in game it takes 2 to keep just one portal open. But that’s just in-game visuals, lorewise, it takes more effort still, and portals by their very nature are dangerous. You’re effectively compressing distance between space and time to create a connecting wormhole, it should be a serious effort rather than a “because I felt like seeing all 3 of my Capitol’s cities tonight”. Do a reagent run, have your friends ICly aid you in anchoring the spell or steadying the flow of mana. Have opening the portal tax your character. Etc. Zog refuses to open portals because of a few reasons, one being that careless ripping of dimensions is what destroyed Draenor, another being that his body is too frail to maintain one himself and he’d need a powerful catalyst for the spell. Another being that he hust doesn’t like traveling through them. He can never shake the feeling that he’s losing organs traversing those things.

But yeah, a lot of my limitations stem from character choice and capability, but also expectations set by earlier lore in the game. I’ve updated what I could in my RP but it gets tiresome when they keep adding contradictions to some of the more fleshed out details about magic that I’ve used in RP for years. Needless to say, it’s killed my enthusiasm to an extent.

25

For me mostly these days by only dping what my character can do in game. (Rogue/Monk dial class IC) so if my classes can’t do it I generally can’t.

The second way is I never do RP fights against non NPCs out of write ups, that gives me a lot more flexibility to craft an exciting scene without going astray into someone else’s exciting scene. Imagine using Ring of Peace to send your disarmed weapons back into your hand am a some kind of force power. Not good vs players but an exciting visual in a write up against an NPC enemy.

In game I only do combat with a preset guild system and handwave a lot focusing more on story than combat. I hate RP fighting players. It never works and I prefer to fight side by side with them against an NPC aggressor than go up against someone’s creation.

26

Start at nothing and work your character up.

And remember that problems solved with magic are boring to everyone but you.

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27

Now that’s cool! Double edged sword. I really like that.

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28

Considering this is WoW I long ago felt it was a given a character could essentially unleash blizzards and geysers of fire and what not. So, I aim to be more creative with my mages.

Solarion focuses on Divination Magic, for example. He doesn’t bother with trying to see events in the future, and after a number of experiences came to the conclusion that delving into the past can be more dangerous than living in the present, so he only looks into past events on request. Instead he focuses his art specifically on learning and discovering. One of the things he’s done in the past was set adventurous souls on the path to some hidden or forgotten treasure he’d uncovered with Divination magic, as an example. There was a case where he helped someone with amnesia by going from one place to another to show them the past events of their life. There was also one time someone cursed came to him; turns out a Warlock had torn their soul into pieces and scattered it around, so he helped locate the pieces.

I’ve also had a mage in the past who specialized in conjury. They used a spell to analyze food and then learn how to conjure that food from it. Their goal was to make a big book of conjury spells for all the dishes on Azeroth.

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29

This is pretty awesome. I think sometimes we get caught up so much in the “war” part of Warcraft that we forget about the everyday things of Azeroth and how the different races and factions use magic for the mundane day-to-day tasks of life.

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30

I agree. Being slapped by one world-ending threat or war after another makes it hard to appreciate the world itself.

Part of the concept I’d outlined came from the fact the mage was from Dalaran. I try to make a character reflect the culture of their homeland if I can help it. The idea of a mage in the Kirin Tor on a quest to learn how to conjure Pandaren Dumplings hardly strikes me as far fetched. But it’s not as if the idea couldn’t really work towards any culture with the right spin.

I could’ve as easily had an Orc Mage who, remembering the famine and drought that plagued Durotar immediately before the Cataclysm, wanted a more tangible way to fight them off in the future. Or a Nightborne touring the world before returning to Suramar to share all the curiosities of the world beyond by something as humble as food.

I just like the idea of being more creative with magic than powerful. Magic is powerful no matter what, after all. It’s how a character uses it that defines the limits.

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31

So, I feel like this is going to be a long one. Because I actually think about this a lot in my RP. I’m going to actually try and keep this a little organized this time instead of a mash of huge paragraphs and I’m sorry in advanced!!! But I’m super interested and enjoy thinking about these sort of things.

Over all, largely, this is going to be a personal thing. There is a lot of differing opinions on how one should weild magic in roleplay. I know many are protective and quick to defend the want that people should do whatever they want. But I worry that doesn’t pave much way into being better at writing. I know that creative writing is not really the goal to a lot of RPers and usually, when you try to give tips or ideas its made to seem like you are telling them to stop having fun.

For me thats the total oppisite. I’m all about HOW. How can you still do the concepts you like, and also grow as a writer? How can you live in this space? Of course not everyone is going to see this the same way so again…largely opinion based.

But lets think about this world, and how everyone is an audience to our own novels. Each character is a book, and everyone wants people to care about their book. To be invested. To love. People think that making their character flawless and all powerful will make them the best. The center. The most cared for. But what people really care about is the abiltiy to connect.

Now, again. This is -your- character. So it’s not always going to be about how others feel. But we have to remember we are subjecting people TO our characters behaviors, and sometimes things can be unfair or…well. Boring. Uninteresting. And this largely has to do with not really having a balance with how you use your magic in proper settings or knowing when to give your character the go ahead, or when to pull it back.

Does this always matter? No. But I think thinking about this is very important! Because learning about this helps you evaluate more then just RP. It helps you visualize story building, movies, other books and your own writing!

And MAGIC is a big thing that can be hard to understand…!

So lets talk about the Rules of Magic. In Creative Writing, you’ll probably find just about every answer to the questions you see posed on the forums. Things like…how do I write accents, or should I bother with them? How do I handle magic? How do I map out a story?

But the Rules of Magic can differ, but over all you’ll see a lot of:

  • Give your Magic a limit.
  • Everything comes from somewhere
  • How does it impact society
  • Everything has a equal and oppisite reaction
  • What is the magics weakness?

When you look it up, you’ll see a lot of things like this and how important it is that magic is a tool, not a personality. You could have the most successful, wonderful, flawless Archmage in the world, but they will be nothing if that is all they are.

Think of why people love the characters Medivh and Khadgar. I don’t think about their magic, I think about their personality. Their morals. I find them to be wonderful characters. I care about them. Not their magic.

But I’m getting off track… Going back to the Rules. Researching magic in creative writing and understanding the lore of the magic you’re Role Playing will be what you want to set your sites on.

If you don’t understand the basics of the lore of what you’re doing, you won’t know how to apply these rules. And yes yes, Blizzard Lore Bad yadda yadda. But whether people like it or not, the magics in Azeroth DO still follow rules and they do still have consequences. But I think we are so use to seeing characters who are well developed that we often forget how often they are also fatigued.

We’ve seen many times great mages who have to rest after casting massive spells. These characters are just people who are vessels for powers far greater then them, and no matter how experienced these characters will get exhausted. They will experience draw backs. Which is why we find this magic interesting.

Let me get into how I personally deal with this a little bit:

When I deal with things that are magic, I have to look at several things. Where I am at, who I am with, and the events that built up what I am doing in that moment.

There are things I Allow Gotosh to do in given situations. And there are things I Don’t allow in given situations.

My goal for him is not for him to be the most talented, but to find ways to build his experience through these situations. If your character is constantly learning, so will you, and your scenarios will be far more rewarding then if you just said it was good and that was it.

I’ve actually worked very hard to build to the point of where he is now. I’ve changed a lot in my writing, in his character, how I view him and so on. He started from the ground and I built him up. Much of what he can do now is BECAUSE I allowed him to have learning experiences through other characters that I felt were meaningful.

And I restrict things when I need to. Shamanism is not a side show Darkmoon Faire act. Shamans work and commune with living spirits that make up the world. It’s spiritual gift and a religious following. The drawbacks of shamanism are that the elements can say No. They can refuse a calling if they feel it’s unjust.

This is paved out very clearly in Lord of the Clans when Thrall asks “Well, we could be living in a paradise. We could be using the elements to make our land perfect. Fertile. Always living.” something to that degree. And Drek’thar was furious. He was insulted. Because by doing this, you are creating a false enviroment. You’re abusing your gift to shape the world for a singular reason. You misuse it.

As a shaman (depending on the culture) you have certaint hings you can and cannot do.

I do not let Gotosh use his gift for everything. He doesn’t do it when people ask him to. I do not make his healing gift all cure-all one and done you’re as good as new. I accept penalties in roll based events if something doesn’t work. He can’t use the ghost wolf form anymore. He doesn’t know how to make Shamanic portals. He can’t turn himself into a giant elemental person. (Of course theres more then just this! But a lot of it is situational!)

But on the flip side, I do have justifications if he does do something. I take his path seriously, and I know I don’t have him misuse it. His path is to aid his people, and to work toward a better future. And if there is something that he does that can justify this, I let him do it. Because the result will be that this person will then in return respect the elements, and in the elements will have someone new in life that will see to them reverence and respect. That if this person sees what they can do, they will see Gotosh for what he can do, and start being mindful of how they treat the world.

Thing includes things like:

  • Growing a small flower in the soil
  • Filling someone’s canteen with water in an emergency
  • Keeping someone warm

=====================

The biggest thing you want to try to avoid is total reliance on magic as a narrative piece like I mentioned earlier. Magic should be a tool, and a part of the characters life but that cannot be all they are.

Now that’s not to say you can’t still -do- this. But if you have a character who has a complete dependence on magic, you need to reflect this. Give them draw backs, make them helpless in situations if they can’t access things. I am in the firm belief that anyones idea is do-able so long as you put the thought into the How and Why. Which is why I think people often misunderstand me when I talk about simply just…the joy of getting deep into the writing of how things can and cannot work.

I don’t -want- people to not persue an idea. I just want to encourage thinking about past ‘I said so’! Or else you get a lot of comments like “Uhm, maybe let people have fun lmao?”.

Anyway, I’ll close out with saying. Do what also is fun. All I simply wish to do is maybe get people interested in how they can make their ideas feel more well rounded. Let your characters limits be a chance to explore. Let it be exciting!

Your character can be powerful, but the more you let them fail, the better it will be. Gotosh cannot use the ghost wolf form, but now he is persuing a ghost stag form. And I’m going to eb going through a lot of RP and journeys and story building before he’s earned it.

So! That was a lot. And theres a lot of good comments in this thread as well! People who have different perspectives on what they let their character do and how they go about it will shape yours.

And I fully agree with starting from nothing and letting your character grow. But don’t let that stop you from trying to be awesome. You’re allowed to have cool moments or make tornados! Just might take a while to summon and then make you very tired.

But do some research and have fun!!! You will only get better, and perhaps, feel more confident in your rp!

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32

Bravo! I mean…this was all so well-said. I wish more put so much thought into the minutiae of their characters and magic like this.

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Very well said. I think you and I seem to have similar thoughts on magic use in game.

I also really like your “Rules of Magic”. In a firm believer that limits breed creativity, and by giving your magic weaknesses and limits it makes the writing all that more fun and interesting.

Hopefully our characters cross paths in-game sometime soon. They seem to have a similar mission and purpose.

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34

Thank you thank you! Both of you!
The Rules of Magic I think are sometimes often ignored when I see people struggle with writing for their character. But I don’t wholly hold it against them, creative writing is not in everyone sights and I don’t even know everything! I have a lot of re-learning to do but its a good thing I kept all my text books…!

But by all means , say hello to Gotosh should you ever see me in public!!!

Edit: Theres a photo I took from a book that gave a great thing to think about when it comes to characters who might be too “awesome.” But the quote is

"If you’re struggling to figure out whether a character is a little too awesome, imagine them at home on a Sunday night. If you find yourself unable to see them doing anything except being awesome, you have a character problem.

Thought this was relevent, and its a good quote!

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35

That is a good quote indeed and a concept I actually have used when thinking about my character. There are so many facets to life, even when we are very dedicated to a specific cause, pursuit, or craft. It only makes sense that our characters (especially long-lived ones), would be as multi-faceted or more so than we are as real people.

I actually did see you last night at the Lunar Festival event in Moonglade. You were right behind me talking to another orc and a forsaken during the finale. Perhaps I will see what kind of conversation I can initiate next time. :slight_smile:

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36

I try not to fixate on mechanics and limitations. My characters abilities will either work or not work for plot reasons, based on what creates/resolves tension and based on the needs of everyone else involved.

One of Kulara’s specialties is divination. It potentially invalidates a lot of mystery and danger if she can just just scry out someone’s location or spy on what they’re doing. I have a laundry list of reasons I can deploy about why it will or won’t work, ranging from “interference” and “disturbing ley line activity” to “a lack of sympathetic materials” and “the decay rate of arcane signatures.”

Never underestimate the power of Star Trek style plausible technobabble.

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37

  1. Don’t be a real wizard.

  2. You only get so many macguffins to cast spells. Spell slots, reagents, personal power, mana, solar spheres, whatever to keep you from just slinging them like a magic machine gun (which is awesome).

  3. Ridiculous restrictions on powers. Like being a sun wizard that can only cast spells during the day. Or only having access to a very specialized set of spells with a narrow field of use.

  4. Have an obvious weakpoint. A scribe that only cast spells from their book? Take the book away. Now that can’t do anything except stand there. Never thinking anything is too obvious though. Reze’s TRP is just shy of saying ‘ONLY THE BOOOK LETS HER CAST SPELLS’ and people still don’t think to stop it.

38

I impose limits on my character’s spell casting with the following factors:

  1. How badly he has to pee

  2. Did his present antagonist do something genuinely evil involving puppies or orphans or is he just some loser that hates cherry pie and probably said a cuss

  3. Which way is the wind blowing

  4. Would it be more efficient to begin a grand casting to summon the burning forces of hellfire or just pick up a rock and chuck it at the motherfricker

  5. If yes, chuck the rock

  6. If no, chuck the rock

  7. Enjoy potstickers

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