How do Jaina lovers defend her?

[Drougen-emerald-dream (Drougen)]

@Slayr-proudmoore

I mean, if you played during that time, you would know.

But sure, here you go https://www.wowhead.com/npc=72498/theramore-citizen

Those were attained after he went crazy. Pre-kill off Garrosh cause he’s crazy never caged civilians. There were no caged civilians in Orgimmar before the raid. He attained them after he went insane and was hostile to the horde and alliance.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

@Drougen-emerald-dream

@Slayr-proudmoore

I mean, if you played during that time, you would know.

But sure, here you go https://www.wowhead.com/npc=72498/theramore-citizen

Those were attained after he went crazy. Pre-kill off Garrosh cause he’s crazy never caged civilians. There were no caged civilians in Orgimmar before the raid. He attained them after he went insane and was hostile to the horde and alliance.

Blizzard has stated many times that Garrosh NEVER went crazy or was corrupted.

He was genuinely just a bad person. They even stated that the Heart of Y’shaarj did not corrupt him, he used the heart, the heart did not use him.

[Nillah-uldaman (Nillah)]

OP stated precorruption garrosh wouldn’t, because he hadn’t.

He did though? Those citizens were taken either during the battle at Theramore, or soon after, and were then imprisoned in Org. Where is the cutoff point for him “going crazy”? At that point although Baine and Vol’jin were starting to distrust him, they were all still working together against the Alliance.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

Let’s not forget the fact he set Ji up for execution during the Siege of Orgrimmar for no reason other than the fact he was Pandaren.

And again - Blizzard stated MANY times that Garrosh was NEVER corrupted. HE used the heart. The heart did not use him.

[Revannia-draenor (Revannia)]

But bringing the burning legion to Azeroth purely for power really doesn’t hold much.

That was Azshara and her mages - who were never part of the Alliance. The Alliance didn’t even exist back then.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

And for the Horde in denial:

Dave “Fargo” Kosak

One of the many sources. Garrosh was NEVER corrupted. He controlled the Heart of Y’shaarj, not the other way around.

And he never went crazy. Blizzard just gave him a personality 180 for some reason.

[Slayr-proudmoore (Slayr)]

Actually he said that garrosh never imprisoned people, that we made it up, even asked for proof.

Once said proof was provided, it became a whole different story.

[Drougen-emerald-dream (Drougen)]

Except you know, when Garrosh literally fed the Darkspear trolls to Proto-Dragons because he felt the trolls were inferior to Orcs. And despite what you think, Garrosh was not corrupted, so this was still Garrosh. Or you know, blowing up the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. Or you know, countless other things during Mists involving the Pandaren.

Yup, Garrosh AFTER Blizzard decided to turn him into some evil person and turn him into a raid boss.

Theramore was only evacuated because they saw the Mana-Bomb coming and the Goblins designed it in such a way that the Alliance KNEW what it was. The goblins could have disguised it as anything else and Theramore would not have been evacuated. If anything, the Goblins saved the civilians at Theramore by not disguising their manabomb.

Garrosh’s whole plan was to make them know Theramore was being attacked so they’d gather all the commanders there. That was the plan from the get go, so it wasn’t the goblins, it was just part of the plan.

Jaina did not “walk throguh Dalaran killing civilians” - learn your lore. That was retconned as not canon VERY quickly, and was only the Horde scenario to stir faction turmoil.

Weird because there’s a whole thing about it called the purge of Dalaran “It saw elements of the Kirin Tor order,a long with the Silver covenant and forced of Stormwind, attempt to purge the blood elve Sunreavers faction from the city of Dalaran.”

“The purge proved to be a blood affair. Though complian sunreavers were imprisoned, many proved defiant in the face of exile from Dalaran and took up arms against Jaina, the Alliance forces, and the Silver covenant while the Silver Covenant took the chance to rob, attack, and otherwise harass the civilians of their political rivals.”

Jaina allowed the civilians to use the portal to leave Dalaran. The ONLY people who died in Dalaran with the Sunreavers who attacked her or Vereesa, as well as 3 shopkeepers who refused to leave Dalaran, who ALSO attacked Jaina and Vereesa.

Wrong.

The only lethal force used in Dalaran were against the people who attacked Jaina and Vereesa. SHOCKINGLY, it’s okay to kill the people who try to kill you. It’s called Self-Defense.

Wrong.

She was given an explicit promise by Thrall that Theramore would never be harmed by the Horde.

Did the horde ever harm Theramore while he was leader? Just making sure.

Then Garrosh went and wiped out Theramore, which included not only her mentor and her apprentice (that she swore she would protect) - who she watched disintegrate in her hands, but thousands of Alliance soldiers.

Sounds like a bummer, that’s how war works.

Gee, I wonder why she would turn her rage on Orgrimmar, the home of Garrosh, the one who initiated the attack, and the home of the people who were complicit with his plans.

Orgrimmar wasn’t even Garrosh’s home, though…if she actually had a braincell she’d go out and attack all the orcs in Nagrand.

[Kneeshooter-amanthul (Kneeshooter)]

So you (and whoever else) is saying that this is not a corrupted Garrosh:

Looks rather corrupted to me.

[Slayr-proudmoore (Slayr)]

Furthermore, it was officially stated by blizzard that he was not corrupted.

So not sure why you keep falling back on that, over and over.

[Slayr-proudmoore (Slayr)]

Thats him harnessing the power of the heart. He chose that.

No one made him do it. Just like no one made him string up people on poles. He just chose to do that out of the … kindess of his heart

[Revannia-draenor (Revannia)]

Theramore was only evacuated because they saw the Mana-Bomb coming and the Goblins designed it in such a way that the Alliance KNEW what it was.

Actually, they were evacuated because Baine gave Jaina a heads up or all the civilians would have been killed. They didn’t know the goblins had a mana bomb until they were too close - I think Kalec sensed it as he was trying to find the Focusing Iris. It’s in the book Tides of War.

[anon71386038]

Well I think they have issues with the characters due to various reasons. One of them being strength levels in lore. Look how they’ve done Malfurion in game. If his lore self was portrayed in game he’d just roll over most of the cast because of how stupidly strong he is.

There isn’t really much written horribly in their stories outside of wow. But when you try to write them in game and are forced to dumb down or just flat out ignore lots of the things that make them really fun to read about in the books you end up with what seems like lazy in game writing.

You just can’t tell really great stories in a game where you have 2 entire factions worth of players to please. So we end up getting what we get and I honestly can’t put it all on them when they have to change so much stuff to make it acceptable to the players in game.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

Except you know, when Garrosh literally fed the Darkspear trolls to Proto-Dragons because he felt the trolls were inferior to Orcs. And despite what you think, Garrosh was not corrupted, so this was still Garrosh. Or you know, blowing up the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. Or you know, countless other things during Mists involving the Pandaren.

Yup, Garrosh AFTER Blizzard decided to turn him into some evil person and turn him into a raid boss.

Theramore was only evacuated because they saw the Mana-Bomb coming and the Goblins designed it in such a way that the Alliance KNEW what it was. The goblins could have disguised it as anything else and Theramore would not have been evacuated. If anything, the Goblins saved the civilians at Theramore by not disguising their manabomb.

Garrosh’s whole plan was to make them know Theramore was being attacked so they’d gather all the commanders there. That was the plan from the get go, so it wasn’t the goblins, it was just part of the plan.

Jaina did not “walk throguh Dalaran killing civilians” - learn your lore. That was retconned as not canon VERY quickly, and was only the Horde scenario to stir faction turmoil.

Weird because there’s a whole thing about it called the purge of Dalaran “It saw elements of the Kirin Tor order,a long with the Silver covenant and forced of Stormwind, attempt to purge the blood elve Sunreavers faction from the city of Dalaran.”

“The purge proved to be a blood affair. Though complian sunreavers were imprisoned, many proved defiant in the face of exile from Dalaran and took up arms against Jaina, the Alliance forces, and the Silver covenant while the Silver Covenant took the chance to rob, attack, and otherwise harass the civilians of their political rivals.”

Jaina allowed the civilians to use the portal to leave Dalaran. The ONLY people who died in Dalaran with the Sunreavers who attacked her or Vereesa, as well as 3 shopkeepers who refused to leave Dalaran, who ALSO attacked Jaina and Vereesa.

Wrong.

The only lethal force used in Dalaran were against the people who attacked Jaina and Vereesa. SHOCKINGLY, it’s okay to kill the people who try to kill you. It’s called Self-Defense.

Wrong.

She was given an explicit promise by Thrall that Theramore would never be harmed by the Horde.

Did the horde ever harm Theramore while he was leader? Just making sure.

Then Garrosh went and wiped out Theramore, which included not only her mentor and her apprentice (that she swore she would protect) - who she watched disintegrate in her hands, but thousands of Alliance soldiers.

Sounds like a bummer, that’s how war works.

Gee, I wonder why she would turn her rage on Orgrimmar, the home of Garrosh, the one who initiated the attack, and the home of the people who were complicit with his plans.

Orgrimmar wasn’t even Garrosh’s home, though…if she actually had a braincell she’d go out and attack all the orcs in Nagrand.

Learn. Your. Lore.

The Horde Purge of Dalaran is not Canon. As I said, the retconned it as not canon rather quickly.

The Alliance Purge of Dalaran is.

The Alliance Purge is how I described. Shockingly just because you witness something in game does not mean it’s still canon.

[Kneeshooter-amanthul (Kneeshooter)]

OK, I will concede that on research Jeremy Feasel did say he wasn’t corrupted. It’s a fine line of logic though, but I guess I will go with “was bat poop crazy” and dressed to impress.

[Nusku-stormreaver (Nusku)]

I think Jaina and Sylvanas should just arm wrestle to see which faction wins.

No ice or banshee powers, just raw physical arm strength.

But because this would be a BIG deal, they should definitely go best 2 out of 3. (Let’s not get ridiculous!)

[Drougen-emerald-dream (Drougen)]

Learn. Your. Lore.

The Horde Purge of Dalaran is not Canon. As I said, the retconned it as not canon rather quickly.

The Alliance Purge of Dalaran is.

The Alliance Purge is how I described. Shockingly just because you witness something in game does not mean it’s still canon.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

[Slayr-proudmoore (Slayr)]

Lol you want to try and bring in facts, yet ignore all facts.

As stated by himself, all Garrosh did… he did “for the horde”

Seems you would fit right in. Undead player confirmed.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

Learn. Your. Lore.

The Horde Purge of Dalaran is not Canon. As I said, the retconned it as not canon rather quickly.

The Alliance Purge of Dalaran is.

The Alliance Purge is how I described. Shockingly just because you witness something in game does not mean it’s still canon.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

Or you know, I’m pointing out you’re using outdated lore that is no longer actually in the lore.

By your own logic, Legion makes zero sense because the Titans are dead, because Mists of Pandaria confirms they’re dead.

I WITNESSED THE CUTSCENE WITH WRATHION WHERE THEY CONFIRMED THEY WERE DEAD! HOW ARE THEY ALIVE IN LEGION?

covers my ears and closes my eyes NA NA NA NA NA! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! This isn’t what happened. I saw confirmation that the titans are dead, so they’re dead. Therefore, the Argus fight isn’t real.

---

This is what you sound like when you are telling me that I’m wrong because I’m telling you about the actual canon version of the Purge of Dalaran, whereas you’re using the retconned non-canon version.

---

Retcons happen. You have to accept them and move on. Purge of Dalaran’s Horde side no longer happened.

The only lethal force in Dalaran was in self-defense and Jaina allowed the Civilians to evacuate. Get over it.

[Slayr-proudmoore (Slayr)]

Exactly, well said