How do Jaina lovers defend her?

Community General Discussion
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Garrosh hadn’t stepped foot on Pandaria yet when Theramore was destroyed, man. He doesn’t get old God corrupted until well into his campaign there. The citizens are already prisoners. You asked me to prove it, I pointed to the raid.

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And those prisoners hadn’t existed in Siege of Orgrimmar until after he went crazy, man. That’s literally what the raid is, Garrosh being opposed by horde and alliance.

Prove it, because there’s nowhere that says that other than Siege of Orgrimmar which you even say you use as evidence.

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Oh I have no illusions that the Alliance has done some bad things. Hell my race nearly blew up the world because our Queen was stupid enough to align herself with the Legion.

The difference is when we do something wrong, we don’t spend thread and thread tying to justify it…

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Jaina never killed innocent civilians.

The Sunreavers are not civilians. They’re a Horde military organization acting in representation of the Horde in Dalaran.

The Kirin Tor at the time were lead by pro-Alliance Jaina.

So its a war. The Sunreavers killed were not innocent. They were memebers of the Horde military and enabling the Horde armies.

Civilians weren’t killed. Only Sunreavers.

Yet Sylvanas burning Teldrassil is a more respectable position?

Can’t we just admit this war isn’t about good vs evil. Its about the Alliance vs Horde. There is only mutual understanding and BOTH sides keep continuing the cycle of war.

I wish people would stop getting so offended by the fact one faction commits attrocities and tries to line up who “technically” did worse and more. It doesn’t matter.

War is war. The Night Elves were hit hard because [insert reasons]. Jaina cleansed Dalaran of the Sunreavers because [insert reasons].

Argue all day, its not going to change that the narrative the creators of this world put forward is that both sides are generally good, both are fighting a perpetual war for nothing more than the sake of war, and that neither side is evil. It is objective to a degree because you have to understand the fact that when the writers make everything up, even if you exaggerate the emotional reactions and actions, the war will never end and the Alliance and Horde will continue to wage it.

It was a game before it was a story and the entire faction war is made up to give us content in game. So don’t take it as a work of literature foremost but in context.

You can’t play on the “evil” side in this game generally speaking. You can do many many evil things throughout the quests and in game itself.

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110

Because It’s often not justifiable. :man_shrugging:

I mean I guess you could try. But bringing the burning legion to Azeroth purely for power really doesn’t hold much.

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I mean, there are people that defend Sylvannas pre and after BFA stuff even though she has been evil ever since her undeath…

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She never did that either.

Bugs do not equal lore.

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And the Horde are…

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There’s a difference between evil and pissed off. :man_shrugging:

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Regardless, if you are pissed off and to evil things you are evil…

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You mean the NPCs that very clearly are named Theramore citizens? He took them when Theramore was destroyed and they remained in Orgrimmar until we got there. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to argue at this point.

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117

I disagree. The Alliance does have blood on its hands.

But people try to justify what The Horde has done, to the things Alliance has done, but without looking at the intent behind those events.

A good example and comparison is Taurajo and Teldrassil. The Alliance had built up Honor Hold off the coast of The Barrens, to more easily support The Night Elves.

Taurajo was providing Tauren hunters to the ranks of The Horde to block off The Alliance into getting into Ashenvale, so The Alliance go to firebomb the camp, during the fighting General Hawthorne ordered the bombers to leave room for citizens to escape.

Unfortunately not all the citizens got out, and they were victims of crossfire. This is something General Hawthorne acknowledges as a failure on his part, and shows remorse for not doing more.

Now compare that to The War of Thorns, Sylvanas wanted to secure Kalimdor and its Azerite trade routes for The Horde. But she needed Darkshore, but one doesn’t simply take an enemies ancestral home from them.

She needed to send a message, she needed to break their moral, so she sought to kill Malfurion. When that plan failed, and she realized that her attack had only emboldened The Night Elves, she burned down Teldrassil to make the message clearer “I will destroy your people, and there’s nothing you can do about it, give up.”

I know that’s a very long post. But I hope you take the time to read it. That is the difference in intent.

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118

Can you prove that? Or are you just assuming and making that up? Because it sounds like you are.

If Garrosh went crazy enough during Siege of Org to drop his fathers axe, you don’t think he’d be crazy enough to imprison people? He did that stuff after he was the target of horde and alliance alike.

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Exactly, jaina is literally one of the strongest mortal mages alive, if not the strongest.

Garrosh was, a warrior.

And why would they bring thrall into it, who had to cheat to beat garrosh.

The elements abandoned him for a reason :joy:

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120

3 and a half elves? She wanted to eradicate and slaughter an entire faction in Dalaran, bro…

Just like she lead the fight against a capitol city full of citizens and orphans after luring any combat force away from it? :roll_eyes:

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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Theramore_Citizen

I still don’t understand. Nobody’s arguing Garrosh would refuse to imprison people? We’re saying he wouldn’t go out of his way to avoid killing innocents, which is what the OP was trying to say happened, implying that Garrosh purposely gave Theramore enough time to evacuate their citizens.

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I mean, if you played during that time, you would know.

But sure, here you go https://www.wowhead.com/npc=72498/theramore-citizen

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OP stated precorruption garrosh wouldn’t, because he hadn’t. You guys are pointing out that he DID cage civilians up and I’m saying, like OP, yeah he did AFTER he went crazy and was hostile to the alliance AND the horde.

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  1. Except you know, when Garrosh literally fed the Darkspear trolls to Proto-Dragons because he felt the trolls were inferior to Orcs. And despite what you think, Garrosh was not corrupted, so this was still Garrosh. Or you know, blowing up the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. Or you know, countless other things during Mists involving the Pandaren.
  2. Theramore was only evacuated because they saw the Mana-Bomb coming and the Goblins designed it in such a way that the Alliance KNEW what it was. The goblins could have disguised it as anything else and Theramore would not have been evacuated. If anything, the Goblins saved the civilians at Theramore by not disguising their manabomb.

Jaina did not “walk throguh Dalaran killing civilians” - learn your lore. That was retconned as not canon VERY quickly, and was only the Horde scenario to stir faction turmoil.

Jaina allowed the civilians to use the portal to leave Dalaran. The ONLY people who died in Dalaran with the Sunreavers who attacked her or Vereesa, as well as 3 shopkeepers who refused to leave Dalaran, who ALSO attacked Jaina and Vereesa.

The only lethal force used in Dalaran were against the people who attacked Jaina and Vereesa. SHOCKINGLY, it’s okay to kill the people who try to kill you. It’s called Self-Defense.

In Legion, Aethas Sunreaver, the leader of the Sunreavers, even admits Jaina was not in the wrong, if you do the Mage Campaign.

As for sending a Tidal Wave towards Orgrimmar - GEE, I wonder why?

She was given an explicit promise by Thrall that Theramore would never be harmed by the Horde.

Then Garrosh went and wiped out Theramore, which included not only her mentor and her apprentice (that she swore she would protect) - who she watched disintegrate in her hands, but thousands of Alliance soldiers.

Gee, I wonder why she would turn her rage on Orgrimmar, the home of Garrosh, the one who initiated the attack, and the home of the people who were complicit with his plans.

Just like if Sylvanas is taken out of power - Jaina makes it clear in 8.2 with her talks to Lor’themar, even though they strike a temporary truce - vengeance MUST be given for Teldrassil - The Horde WERE complicit in its burning, and they are not innocent in it, it was not just Sylvanas. (Then Lor’themar goes off about how vengeance must be given for Dalaran, despite the fact Blizzard seems to have forgotten they retconned the fact Jaina literally did nothing wrong in Dalaran) So unless they retcon their retcon, which would be idiotic, Lor’themar’s part of that bargain makes no sense.

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