I mean, my character got the message, put the head phones in, and let the good times roll. The only weird in character situations while questing are only letting a certain amount of people out of cages or something like that. There shouldn’t be many embarrassing character ideas man, that’s the wrong way to look at it.
I guess that description works, because it kinda just sounds like the Alliance war campaign.
Yeah dude is cringe af
Nobody has said this Zahir.
All we’re asking for is for some Alliance Main Characters™ to be villain batted.
Doing so would
Make Turalyon, Genn, and Alleria racist war hawks that are willing to sacrifice other Alliance people for their goal.
There.
I asked you, explicitly, what you meant by plotarmor. Your own argument speaks against you. Your argument is: BECAUSE the Horde lost heroes, the ALLIANCE must also lose some in the faction wars.
That’s your argument in a nutshell, you’re upset - as described above - that Horde characters don’t survive, but Alliance characters do. So I just asked provocatively, if you would have liked to kill, even made you a list, so nice I am 
What am I mad about, do you really want to know? Well, I’m pissed that everyone is just arguing “who has it worse”.
Alliance? Horde, I don’t care. I care about the individual races, I like races from both factions, I couldn’t care less if the Alliance dies today as a political faction, or the Horde and you have Race vs Race again. But to be honest, blizz can’t do that, they fail on basic parameters, so as you can read I argue against this “RACHE” because it wouldn’t end well.
It just wouldn’t be revenge, at least the context would be washed out, that’s why it should have happened in BFA, or just shouldn’t happen at all, see my argument above.
i asked her, what she mean with “Plot armor”, i get an answer, don´t tell me, she wouldn´t like it.
That’s not the consequence of taking the gloves off. That’s the consequence of a pristine expectation. The Horde aren’t villains right now, get over yourself.
Sylvanas is alive, and is likely getting a redemption arc.
However nobody is deluded enough to think at the end of said redemption arc, should it happen, she’ll come back to the Horde.
She is firmly gone and is either going to be a Villain in a glass box for later, or a Neutral character in a glass box for later.
Alliance “losing” one of their characters (via Villain Bat) is if Turalyon is the Secondary Antagonist of the “Light Is Bad” expansion in a few years, and he force-Lightforges and otherwise kills Alliance and Horde peoples.
But they’re not dead.
Horde lost Thrall post-Cata, but he wasn’t dead (and is back I guess, almost ten years later).
Don’t remember me “Sylavnas getting a Redemption”, that’s a worst case scenario in my eyes.
The Horde is certainly NOT the heroes either dude… Ergo, the most comical conclussion of all:
Indeed, the Horde is nothing. And some of us would actually desire to make it meant SOMETHING different from welfare Alliance, for example.
Reason why 5th post has proven time and time again as the best path to take - at least in regards to the Horde players -. And reason why the factions narrative should become permanently detached from each other.
Okay whatever, but point is that Alliance not only needs to get hit with a villain bat to add narrative nuance to the plot because:
But also you are conflating a character being “gone”, for the faction narrative, with being “dead”
e.g.
I am not arguing against Turalyon starting the next crusade here and killing all " non-believers ". (Turalyon’s foundation of faith is still, according to the book, everything that is not one with the light must be destroyed, that was according to the book Tides of Darkness his conviction in faith. Orcs, for example, are not in his eyes.)
But what I don’t get, YOU see where this ended this time, YOU SEE IT! Look here in the forum, look to the arguments here and i think every other thread since wot
YOU notice it yourself, why do you want to repeat the same bad story instead of making a better one?
What ending would that be?
There is zero chance for a better story until the Horde has a moral footing both internal to itself and against the Alliance and until the Alliance loses at least ONE SINGULAR TOE of moral footing at the very least, to allow for internal nuance and “grey”.
It isn’t easy to build up a new character at all.
Character design itself can be tricky, but the hardest part by far is in actually developing the character in the story. Especially a story that already has a massive cast with very limited screen time to be allotted. Even more especially when the character has to replace an already well developed and beloved character who recently died.
The best way to go about this is to develop the character before the one they’re to replace dies, as we see with Anduin and Varian. Anduin developed alongside his father into a character we were all familiar with so when Varian died there was already a decently well established replacement, and Varian’s death was able to catapult Anduin’s character progress forward.
The worst way to go about it is how Blizzard does it with Horde characters where they by and large don’t bother building up a replacement at all until years after the character dies. Vol’jin only really got development in the same expansion Garrosh was going out the door. Rokhan didn’t really get any good content until an entire expansion later. Baine similarly got no characterization prior to Cairne’s death.
It will take years before Rokhan can fill Vol’jin’s non-existent shoes. Baine still hasn’t filled Carine’s even though Baine has more screentime than Cairne ever did because of how poorly handled he’s been, which goes to show that even when they do dedicate the time to a character they won’t necessarily do a good job with it. All of Thrall’s development since Warlords has just made him a worse and worse character that almost nobody cares about anymore and the Forsaken don’t even have a racial rep right now and the one Blizzard seems poised to force on them didn’t meaningfully exist in the story until BfA.
Creating new characters to replace old ones is a time consuming venture that demands quality writers with a real passion for the new character as well as development time to be dedicated to the cut-scenes and in-game story arcs necessary to actually show that character to the players. It also needs narrative space which, unfortunately, is mostly occupied by the Alliance so far in Shadowlands.
Hopefully Baine “Literal Garbage” Bloodhoof’s story arc of being thrown off a cliff like trash by the big bad goes somewhere, I guess.
Right, you asked my why I demanded Alliance-Brand Plot Armor if an Alliance aggression story.
It had nothing to do with killing your stupid, flawless characters Zahir. It was about protecting mine. I don’t feel its an unreasonable request (if all other bets are off) to let the Horde reps that desperately need development to get a bit of the Plot-Armor the Alliance reps always enjoy … if the Alliance were given a chance to wail on us. Because, the ONLY benefit to the Horde Faction in such a m*sturbatory Alliance Power Fantasy story … is that our characters are given opportunities to get fleshed out. Get pressured. Get a chance to strut their stuff as leaders. Especially for the newbies.
But you can not even give me that much.
Might’ve been the case circa WC2, but now? He’s got a Void Queen for a wife, his Lightforged troops work alongside her Void Elves, he’s accepted that the Forsaken aren’t demons wearing the rotting flesh of people he once loved, etc…
If people want Turalyon to go full Zealot and start a Crusade, I’m not against it, but don’t act like it’s something he’d ever do under his own power. If that happens, Xe’ra will have Lightbound him and use him like a pawn without will.
You’re alluding to something and not delivering what. This is way beyond ridiculous at this point, not just due to the clowns obsessed with me above.
Some Alliance want revenge on the Horde, fine. No one expects this to result in the Alliance retaining this revelry that’s still being worried, and panicked over.
The characters who want to show the Horde as something other then nothing, seem to be the ones that are reviled by the Horde playerbase. What does welfare Alliance even mean? Are you trying to say the Alliance character shouldn’t been seen as heros in the eyes of the Horde? What’s a ‘token good Horde’ not something you said, but someone else refused to answer.
I understand why some Alliance want to see a big glob of spit trace from an Alliance character into the Horde’s face, but I don’t have to have that going forward. However. Something like that might have been great for the story, had Horde not reacted to ridiculously over the top in the narrative repeatedly in the past.
He literally blasted Alonsus with the Light knowing full well it usually causes the immediate spontaneous combustion of most undead
That he let a Wind Chime throw in JAIL for an unclear amount of millennia.
We never really see them in the same space actually? Also press x to doubt they actually like eachother
No he accepted Alonsus isn’t, who was his mentor/father figure.
Like the fact Alfonso X de Castilla was best friends with various Muslim rulers doesn’t mean everyone under either were okay with eachother.
And then Faol spoke to him, he realized Faol wasn’t a corpse being piloted by some demon’s soul like, say, the WC2 Death Knights he fought (the only undead we really know him to have had first-hand experience with), and then Turalyon’s entire perspective on the Forsaken as a race changed.
Arguably under the influence of Xe’ra, considering his gold eyes vanished when she died.
Shadow’s Rising, the novel prior to Shadowlands. We even see that the Lightforged Draenei use Void Rifts, even if it creeps them out to do so.
And he was in support of the meeting between the living and dead in Stromgarde as well.
Eh, it’s a mix of just in general feeling silly about my idea, knowing how annoying it can be when people talk about RP character concepts in the story forum instead of the World’s End Tavern subforum, and also because I’m pretty vocal about my opinion of “headcanon is worthless.” So the fact that I ended up headcanoning a horde ex-pat backstory I liked enough that I was actually finding BFA enjoyable…paradoxically bummed me out a bit.
As for the war campaign, yeah I summed up the gist of it but I was thinking more about a player character’s agreeability to the content. A common complaint I heard (and agreed with) is that a dyed-in-the-wool alliance player character would find it an incredibly hard sell to go soft on the horde yet again. Why would they focus mostly on Sylvanas instead of blaming the horde as a whole? Why trust Baine? Why tolerate working alongside Saurfang? They’re incredibly weird questions that are all instantly resolved if the player isn’t originally alliance to begin with. And that just so happens to perfectly fit the timeline of a void elf switching sides prior to BFA.
There are starving Zandalari orphans sadly holding empty bowl but you all just keep feeding Vuldezi.
I love how anyone who remotely enjoys the Alliance story is not allowed to have an opinion on what would make the Horde better. But, it’s just a chant at this point that the Horde think Turalyon being evil is going to satisfy every Alliance person that’s ever breathed air lol. And saying otherwise is just ‘cringe’, because you’re ‘reveling in moral absolutism’, because you don’t buy into this Horde imposed self-victimization attempt.
Maybe write something positive for once, a positive ending instead of a depressing one? I use Warhammer as an example: Grimm Dark (Fantasy), Old world, Storm of Chaos. Although everyone lost here and there, in the end there was the BIG WIN! The big victory, a positive ending.
If even a Grim Dark fantasy setting gives a more positive ending, what does that say about WOW?
Garrosh? Anduin? Two examples of characters created and developed and expanded in WOW. It takes time, but unless you have a WC3 build-up, every character we have so far has gone this way.
I can’t give you anything because I’m not blizzard, and if I were writing the story BFA wouldn’t have happened that way, but noted.
That with the undead AKzeptieren was in my EYES the next WRONG step! Instead of finally times to revive it with “Kill the undead”, no, you take it away more and more. THESE are really gray areas of the alliance, this is also not racism, because it has nothing to do with race, but because it is simply unnatural, the dead continue to go, are simply undead.
thats were grey areas of the alliance.
Against undeads, because they´re undead
against orcs because fear, felmagic, “Bloodthirtsty” and partly even racism
against trolls because racism (95%) und 5% fear
against felfire, because warlock magic is bad magic, thats all Alliance Territory once, but in wow, they can´t have that.