Would you have preferred Anduin scold Genn or something? Wow. The Horde was under Sylvanas’ control, she’s evil, they knew well enough to be on the attack. It’s not like Tyrande, or Genn we’re allowed to accomplish anything at all. Genn doing anything resulted in the genocidal jump cut, that a lot of the Horde loved.
That’s not me reveling in moral absolutism, that’s you desperately wishing that I was reveling in moral absolutism.
Like seriously, you’re posting ‘what I want’ do you not understand how dumb that makes you look?
So what Genn attacked Sylvanas? God damn… like you are all complaining and complaining about morally grey and everytime someone suggests anything dark there is a cacophony of why it shouldn’t be done or its unfair or whatever.
Its like yall don’t even want what you say you want.
I guess Blizzard writers know exactly how to make their audience satisfied with their story.
How about the Horde being allowed to react to it for starters? Rather than it being handwaved away nearly entirely? How about Anduin punishing Rogers, which he had full authority to do (unlike Genn), who co-opted Alliance resources to cause an international incident (and frankly, Act of War) for a personal grudge. No? That would mean an Alliance act wouldn’t be portrayed as totally validated and handwaved away to nothing? We can’t have that. The Alliance are the infallible “Good Guys” at all times.
Like, my favorite part of the WoT wasn’t that the Horde didn’t really have reasons to start it (Teld is a different matter, but Saurfang’s WoT was more than justified). Or … it would have been if Blizz didn’t come in to constantly invalidate Alliance “grey” acts. Stormheim of course. Due to Anduin’s reaction to it (or lack there of) it was no less a declaration of War against the Horde than Varian’s literal declaration of War in WotLK (that was ALSO whitewashed and handwaved away). But, Silithus is just my favorite. When Blizz realized the handwave excuse they wrote into BtS for why it was totally fine having an Alliance military organization attacking Horde civilians in that zone … wouldn’t work. So they retconned those events so the Goblins attacked the explorers league a “first time”, for no other reason given than “they’re goblins”. Then had them still follow through with the initial “excuse” with the kidnap of Sapphretta after. Can’t have Alliance military slaughtering Horde civilians be an Act of War. The Horde has to start it.
They were allowed to react to it, are you not aware of what BfA was? No one hand waved it away whatsoever, it literally manifested in the Horde genocide for the Night Elves. I know it turns you on for Anduin to be scolding people, but I don’t think that’s something any Alliance player really would…remotely want to experience. The Horde doesn’t like being scolded.
The Alliance didn’t start the WoT, Sylvanas did, what are you taking about? Does this Goblin crap in Silithus you’re referring to SOUND like a retcon, or just the story? You don’t even sound coherent.
The Horde who would like to be invested in the story might. As it would be a sign that Blizz doesn’t constantly bend over backwards to portray the Alliance as these artificial and frankly inhuman paragons of every virtue ever conceived by man. Flawless and pure. Unless of course they need to get hit with the stupid and nerf sticks for a little while, because Blizz is too lazy to build up the faction they’re about the villain bat to be a tangible threat. They wont even bother with Horde motives, so why the means for such acts?
Frankly, if you remove the Horde plot-device from the equation … the Alliance are as resistant to flaws as their current High King. No wonder they can’t be allowed any genuine internal conflict, discourse, or stories. Or at least none thats allowed to not fizzle out to nothing. Because they have to. If there weren’t constant external threats acting upon them … nothing would ever happen to or with them.
Horde and Alliance skrimish all the damn time. It happened even in WoD where we were supposed to be united against the Iron Horde.
So… why is Silithus such a big deal? In regular questing we screw each other’s factions over all the time.
This has never been a reality but you seem so god damn obsessed over it that it borders on cringe. On one hand we got Droite saying Alliance is jesus christ himself come again and then we have another Blood Elf who shall remain nameless who endlessly complains about the terrible crime that was the pUrGe Of DaLArAn.
Uh what? Even if I accept what you said before being hit by stupid stick is not a contradiction to being holy and free of moral ambiguity.
Wrong.
Blizzard loves the Horde and the reason they do what they do is because they genuinely think this is what it means to build up the Horde. To their minds they just grew the Horde out of their blood thirsty tendencies and the Alliance was just the unfortunate casualty that was necessary.
Which is something you agree with actually with the bad parent and the two siblings analogy. I don’t understand your line of logic it seems to change every time the topic of the discussion changes.
I genuinely think you need help.
I can’t even begin to address the rant above.
From what I understand, Droite acknowledges that the Alliance has done some fairly morally bankrupt stuff. The problem is that its only the players acknowledging it, and not the narrative. Prior to BFA Sylvanas had to sell the War of Thorns to Saurfang and scraped for justification, finally ending on Genn’s attack on her in Stormheim, and the seeming lack of punishment for it. While I won’t speak for her more than trying to explain how I’ve seen her point of view, I don’t disagree with it entirely.
In BFA, the Alliance did some fairly dark stuff, but it always came with a justification that made it seem acceptable on the surface. Droite’s issue is that the Horde never holds the Alliance accountable. I think that’s a fair point, that things the Alliance do aren’t brought up more often.
They can’t handle it though, eh? A tit for tat reaction would be fine, but it’s not remotely like that. They get worried someone isn’t scolded, and that leads to preemptive genocide. It wasn’t even an escalation at all, the Alliance had to take the first punch, and they were rebutted with genocide.
Well, from what I recall of the short story, Sylvanas’ entire argument was based on the fact that because Anduin didn’t reprimand Greymane, it was a sign that he wasn’t strong enough to keep the Alliance reigned in. The Alliance and Horde were roughly on even footing prior to the War of Thorns, but given enough years, the Alliance would grow stronger and have the distinct advantage. A pre-emptive strike to end a future conflict over Azerite would therefor save more lives in the long run, by capturing Teldrassil to keep the Alliance paralyzed for it’s safety.
And that’s important to keep in mind; Sylvanas didn’t approach Saurfang with a plan to commit suicide. She approached with a plan to prevent a war from starting with a position of strength.
It’s never been my understanding she wanted Saurfang to commit suicide. It feels really strange to have Anduin scold Genn for reacting violently to a woman who has had a hand in the deaths of members of both those royal families…
If that’s the proper reaction then, Saurfang should have scolded Sylvanas for suggesting such a thing. That way she could react in kind, but without everyone behind her, so it could have been smaller scale.
How are we supposed to not be ‘reveling in moral absolutism’. When the Horde seriously expect our Boy King to scold someone for defending his father’s honor?
Then Alliance is has no moral absolutism and he needs to stop saying it knowing it’s not true.
Did you miss the part in BFA where Jaina says “we all have blood on our hands” and Andiun saying Daelin and Arthas is our fault.
Probably the most ridiculous fantasy dialogue I ever had to read through. Blizzard is terrible at writing war stories… just so damn terrible. Best one I have ever read was Joe Abercrombie, the man is a genius.
I would like to take this opportunity to tell everyone here that justifications are the bare damn minimum that an author has to deliver. The problem is that the bar is so damn low that people see justifications and suddenly think its morally justified and therefore beyond reproach.
My sleep deprived brain meant genocide but typed suicide, apparently. Sorry for the confusion.
Well, attacking the Warchief of the Horde would normally be enough to provoke a war, but doing so during a Legion invasion is a lot worse. Anduin did give Genn permission to engage, but only if necessary, and it was hardly necessary.
He judged it was necessary and he attacked. No character or person on a meta level can say it was wrong and I am not even talking about hindesight. Genn knows Sylvanas and what she is capable of so he made a judgement call as he was ordered to do.
Also to comment about Alliance repercussions if the Horde player was going to have an Alliance experience in Stormheim what would have happened would have been vastly different. Genn would have attacked and Horde’s fleet would have been decimated with some low effort cinematic and various D rate characters might have been injured or died. Genn says something mean and flies away to set up a base of operation to figure out what the Horde wanted to do here.
Because the Horde got to respond to the attack by fighting Genn and bringing down his ships is far more than Alliance players ever have a chance of experiencing to a Horde act of aggression.
I do and what is ironic is that in SoL in the end its the Horde that blows up the city to stop an Alliance victory.
In Stormheim the Horde is the one to infiltrate the ship and blow it up from the inside after overwhelming all its defenses.
I think this is the perfect representation of what is wrong when it comes to Alliance and Horde military responses to acts of aggression by the other faction that players have a chance of participating in.
Sylvanas is like the most morally black of all the racial leaders, Genn was given his parameters, and she pretty much fit the bill at the time, and even more so down the line. If Genn hadn’t it’s literally Anduin defending the Horde from his own faction…
Sylvanas is blighting her own troops at Lordaeron so she can decide the siege, but when Jaina appears suddenly people want to say there’s no reason for her to be there doing that…
