And lets thereby an echo chamber develop which is _still not _meaningful.
No, it isn’t. Wanting to develop the Horde so it has a better place in the story isn’t tantamount to an echo chamber.
Look at my post (#4).
Is there anything in those suggestions that do the following:
- Involve the Alliance
- Take something away from the Alliance
- Hurt Alliance players
I’ll give you an example.
The US Military is in need of fixing. This thread is specifically about fixing the US Army. You and others are coming in here demanding that the fixes to the US Army need to also involve the US Airforce.
This isn’t the place for that.
Just as I’m not going to go into a thread about rebuilding the Alliance and demand that all solutions involve making the Horde player feel better about themselves.
It’s nonsensical.
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Yea, but I disagree. It’s true military wise Teldrassil was a success. But that metric matters the least out of all, and in all other areas I agree that Teldrassil was a loss. Doesn’t dampen my desire for payback however, or restitution.
However, I might add there are parts of the Horde playerbase who didn’t see the Teldrassil as that much of a negative, or perhaps even a plus. I get you aren’t like that, but there are Horde players like that. You’ll struggle to find a single Alliance player who saw Lordaeron as anything but the most pyrrhic victory.
TIL.
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And you have a right to feel that way. Never denied that once, Morg. There is frustration on both sides.
Personally, I don’t feel qualified to offer a fix for that frustration on Alliance side. That’s why I haven’t made suggestions for or created a thread about fixing the Alliance.
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Alright, I get it.
It’s just that I do not think it is possible to settle the whole fourth war business without involving the Horde. I get that you disagree strongly with that, and I understand why. But I just can’t see a way forward otherwise.
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This is fair. I take this into consideration in my post. While there are individual elements (replenishing our depleted character roster) that are independent of the Alliance I do involve them in my hypothetical. This includes the Alliance dealing a massive hit to the Horde.
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As it has been explained to you several times yes.
Your response was thats a you problem.
I will assume that I recalled the problems correctly.
My favorite unkillable apocalypse (snowy, numb, other). Azeroth freezes over, and while the Alliance is thinking about its own salvation (building shelters), the Horde is trying to save the world. In a cold / hot apocalypse, Horde shamans will negotiate with elementals, mages will heat / cool the world. You may have to use Green Jesus. He will “force” them to keep the peace right now, so new shamans will negotiate. On the other hand, why does the Horde need so many shaman characters? The shaman will negotiate. A druid or hunter will set up a “storage” for the animals, just in case.
…
My fantasy is over. What a pity.
Yes, replenishing our depleted character roster hurts Alliance players…
Yes, giving Alliance their own story beat when it shouldn’t involve the Horde hurts Alliance players…
Yes, ensuring that problems within either faction are not resolved by the other faction hurts Alliance players…
Yes, making sure that appropriate people (of either faction) are present when it makes sense for the story (Such as draenai on Argus) hurts the Alliance players…
Yeah, that’s it.
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Wait, wait… so the problem IS that the Horde didn´t stay to get slaughtered? I mean you imply that Alliance was winning but suddenly they “lost” just because they weren´t the ones to destroy Undercity?
But sure, this is NOT about Alliance killing Horde population 
Errr… someone didn´t read “A Good War” and is complaining without even taking into account the whole chain of canon lore events, cause guess what? THIS you mention was almost word by word what happened, just replace “Tyrande” with “Malfurion” and “moonshield” with “wisp wall” and there you have your impenetrable defense -and it was. Horde had to circunvent all the way into Felwood to reach Darkshore by the opposite side, where the Shatterspear used to live-.
This is the problem dude, the Horde NEVER destroyed ALL the Nelf defenses, they literally had to device a way to AVOID them and slip into the territory other way different to blunt force.
Literally the status quo of most Horde races including my fav… and mind you, we haven´t ever gotten the benefit of “invulnerable long-term characters” like you guys have, so…
Welcome to the club of losing entire portions of unamed population.
They are PART of the Alliance not “ALL” the Alliance, dude.
There´s a difference.
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No need to make up what I already told you with total falsehoods. Just quote what I specifically said rather than extrapolating total fantasy that I have corrected you several times now.
Falsehoods? Those are literally some of the suggestions I’ve made. Anyone can check post #4 and see them. You’re the only one in this thread that somehow equates those suggestions to “hurting Alliance players.”
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Sort of. When something the magnitude of Teldrassil happens, you really just want payback, even if that payback means you’re doing something evil. Now i’m not sure if it’s because Blizzard thinks Alliance players can’t handle doing evil stuff, or if there was something else that made them decide how SoL would play out. But the way it played out was the least satisfying way they could have gone about it. First a grueling frontal attack, then blight in the face, followed by having our objective literally go up in smoke, with large parts of our forces inside it. And to top it all off, the Horde completed their evacuation.
And with that evacuation, they got something the Alliance didn’t really get. That’s how I feel at least.
There is a suspicion that your story will end badly for the night elves. The last rift in Kalimdor, the night elves in the same place and Tyrande for some reason closes the rift in the Eastern Kingdoms. Suspicious.
The Horde can build all the characters they want.
But as you said when the next time we have to work together we somehow have to explain why should the Alliance work with Horde characters.
Or Horde and Alliance characters working in the same neutral organizations without invalidating everything the Horde has done by completely absolving them of any wrong doing going forward.
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The farthest north it reaches is just south of Astranaar.
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Thanks for giving us your permission…
Probably the same reason Horde and Alliance ALWAYS end up working together. Because if they don’t, the BBEG will win. That’s been the MO for this game since Vanilla.
Neutral organizations are just that, Neutral. Unless they are directly affected by a constituent excluding someone means they would no longer be Neutral.
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Ty for pointing this out, cause IT´S the root of the “you problem”. Simply put it, you people WON´T even try to “like back” your faction unless kicking OUR faction is involved.
And as ugly as it sounds, this is the ocean of difference between people like YOU (that condition the enjoyment of your toys under the state of other peoplke´s toys) and people like ME (who don´t give a censored word over your toy and just want to be left alone to enjoy my toy, tyvm. And yes this is true, I have always said I just don´t want your toys messing up my gameplay, I have never ever demanded for you people to lose cities nor characters nor anything else cause simply that´s not my problem and I can´t pretend to act like a sensible adult if I´m more worried over your stuff than mine, period).
U-hu. Where were you in WotLK when the devs decided it was A-Ok to ignore both the Forsaken and Belf playerbase in regards to them confronting Arthas? Cause I don´t remember you defending those players´ “rights” to get payback.
And mind you, we didn´t get it and STILL survived and moved one. Maybe because we decided it was better to focus on keeping and saving what we love instead of destructing what we hate regardless on how realistic this destruction can be done?
Player have nothing to do with that choice. Alliance are depicted as unable to act evil simply because if they do so then the writers can´t justify the abhorrent plot armor they use for their characters (no seriously, point to any Alliance flavored pet character of Afriasiabi et al getting called up on his/her BS, and I´m sure I´ll wait forever cause this NEVER happens).
Why do they feel like only the Horde can carry ALONE the weight of actual complex development is the real question here. Cause your faction seems to be the “go to” for them in neutral expacs and ours the plot device when they need to make one of the factions looks worse than the other.
I suppose they´re still terribly salty WC3 vision of the Horde was more popular than the WC1-WC2 one.
What, unamed civilians that are MORE ignored than your dead ones as of right now and the threat of a MHP poster wet dream character as a racial leader? Is this what you people wanted; to get blamed; ignored and then to anguish and suffer at the revelation the worst replacment ever can become your nuRacial leader?
Gan please, why do you think he never aknowledged my post in which I pointed out how then “neutral BBEG oriented” expacs WON´T ever be able to use neutral organizations? Cause he´s not interested in his organizations losing screentime, he deemed a vague “maybe devs will give you guys something, an obscure rep in Org is good enough as far as I´m concerned” a good enough solution to this issue.
Make a coherent explanation on why should Belf players and Zandalari players work and even DEFEND Jaina in BfA, I´ll wait.
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I feel like the only way around this would be creating characters that use horde races yet specifically disavow being part of the faction. Or give them the Huln Highmountain treatment where they’re functionally alien to their own racial association.
Sounds like a bummer though, if the only way a horde race can be accepted as good in neutral content is if they’d prefer to avoid the horde player, who was never given the luxury of going neutral themselves.
The problem is your toy was used to destroy mine. I understand that it wasn’t your fault. But in this case my toy won’t be made whole without involving your toy. That doesn’t mean I want to destroy your toy however.
I was enjoying my faction very well actually, until bfa hit. And that completely disintigrated the joy I felt. The following patches just destroyed it further.
I was 12 years old and didn’t even know what a forum was. And I wasn’t as deep into the lore as I am now.
Difference is, Arthas and the Scourge wasn’t a playable faction. And you weren’t forced to team up with him the following expansion.
Believe it or not, those unnamed civilians were quite important. At least to me, and my immersion.
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