I think the diplomat angle was always there from the beginning, but what exactly happened to them was never elaborated - and I think it still is left ambiguous even after the Sylvanas novel? Which I like.
The Forsaken can be all: “We did send diplomats! You never sent a response!”
While the Alliance responds: “What diplomats?”
And both sides can be correct and logical about how they respond to that situation.
(My favorite headcanon for what happened is that some Lordaeronian survivors shot these undead from stealth, thinking they’re Scourge who were getting too close to the survivors’ makeshift camp. And the bodies get tossed onto the pyre while the camera zooms in, Citizen Kane-style, on the unnoticed bit of a scroll peeking out from one of the Forsaken’s robes, stamped with Sylvanas’ official seal.)
They only killed Garithros. A man who never comes up in Stormwind except for his name to be spat upon by Shaw.
I’ll never get over how the Forsaken killing Azeroth’s biggest racist is a bad thing that makes them unworthy of trust. That’s like the only unambiguously good thing Sylvanas ever did.
They killed Garithos and denied him the deal that would’ve given Lordaeron, capital city, back to his people. At -best- that is a betrayal of a military alliance, which is not a minor thing.
But by all means, your phrasing is insinuating that they killed Garithos -because- he was racist. So- source?
He stomps up and insults all of them. As he had every dwarf and elf beforehand. He just did it to the wrong one this time.
I’m sorry did you take that scene as some dark betrayal lol? An outright villain finally gets his comeuppance. The scene might as well have an Applause sign on it.
Hold on a second. Do you not realize that this wasn’t even the first betrayal in that DLC expansion? Or even that Forsaken campaign? RIGHT BEFORE she kills Garithos, she makes Varimathras BREAK his races oath not to kill another Dreadlord. It is two betrayals in one cinematic. Obviously it’s displayed as a victory for HER, because YOU’RE PLAYING HER.
She didn’t kill him for being racist. If that was the case, she’d have honored her word to the rest of the humans and given them the city.
She killed him for being an insufferable petulant prick. Same difference. Guy banishes the Blood Elves for working with Naga then teams up with undead.
I feel like you’re bringing up the bigotry thing to insinuate something. The Forsaken are mad scientists straight out of world war 2. If it wasn’t your intent, im sorry, but lets be very clear that the Forsaken are just as bad.
I’m not weeping for Garithos. Do you realize that attacking another power you have a military agreement with, and taking the land you promised to give his people, is a bad look?
I am honestly surprised that there is so little story on the Alliance side about Garithos - or, more importantly, about all the people that either served under him or relied on him for protetion, and their views on the happenings in Lordaeron and Garithos’ fate.
To me, this kind of scenario should be one of the main philosophical divisions between the factions - where the Horde might say that this Horde member has no honor/no value/has to o and thus challenge and slay the person on the spot, the Alliance is aghast at such violence and must instead compile reports and wait for orders back from a higher authority in order to remove their own bad apples. So the Alliance, even if they hate Garithos, would still consider this event to be something that forever taints Sylvanas as untrustworthy.
My main concern is that the betrayal was not against Garithos personally or selectively, but also against the whole survivor group that Garithos represented at the time. Who I don’t think are ever really mentioned, as to whether any escaped, whether Sylvanas slaughtered them all, or if Sylvanas let them leave but the Scourge got them all, or whether they made it all the way to Ironforge and have been on a bender this whole time and that’s why they never told us anything.
The one former Garithos-follower I remember being mentioned in canon (Kristoff or something, who also turned out to be evil) left before the whole deal with Sylvanas, so that doesn’t shed much light on events.
From Stormwind’s side? Most likely because most people there didn’t know him. Lets be real, he didn’t earn his title. He was just the last guy standing. It’s the only reason people followed him. To people in Lordaeron, they were living in a zombie apocalypse, and he really only held power for like, a year? Then there was about 2-3 more years without him, with centralized power in Southshore.
But heck, it’s classic WoW writing. The game doesn’t even tell you that Tarren Mill wasn’t wiped out in the scourging of Lordaeron. We dunno how it fell, just that it existed under human control in the Kalec comics. HONESTLY, i don’t even know what to think of that though, given it was surrounded by alliance footholds in every direction, or at least forces that weren’t friendly to the Forsaken or Scourge. The Kirin Tor is not exactly friendly with 'em, even in Cata the Forsaken attack them lol.
This is exactly it. She is a power from a historically, pretty insular and racist kingdom of pompous elves, claiming the land from someone she made a deal with, denying it to his people.
THAT IS THE PROBLEM. The -actual- history says one thing. The propaganda or new crap tries to tell you to ignore that actual lore, and brings up random crap that makes no sense. You cannot divorce Warcraft 3 from WoW. Metzen made the OG setting in WoW to mostly align, even with the RPGs. You cannot pretend this isn’t blatant retcons.
Bad comics are memed on for inconsistency and no depth. But do not pull the ‘it’s like a comic book’ thing lmao. There are plenty even in that media with consistency, meaning and incredible character depth.
If Garithos is “Azeroth’s biggest racist” for calling duty-drinking dwarves brainless and making a remark about elven ears, where does Sylvanas “Forest trolls I hate them even more than those dreadlords slaughter them all” Windrunner rank?
That is still the funniest thing to me. She declares them Forsaken after attacking a human ally who, while he didn’t like her, still made a deal with her -despite- his own councilors explicitly saying they expected her to screw him over.
Buddy. It’s not propaganda. It’s an edit. This is fiction. And the fact is the vast majority of WoW players haven’t played WC3.
This has been operating on it’s own lore basically from the word go but definitely from 2006 onward with the very existence of the Draenei.
And I like Metzen but he’s not Tolkien. This wasn’t some academic artists vision born of a love of folklore. It was a product born of an inability to get a Warhammer license that accidentally had a few moments of brilliance that are now hilariously outweighed by the tonnes of stupidity that followed.
WoW’s story is at best a B+ 80s fantasy flick with an irresponsibly large budget. And has been since I started playing it at age 12. And now I’m a 30 year old man who frets about credit card bills and cancer. So, idk what to tell you. Thats been dead and buried for awhile.
At best. It is a retcon 20 years later to try to make the people who use chemical weapons and do some of the most evil things imaginable, actually look like the victims. Lets not pretend like thats good writing lmao. Most people haven’t even read the book either mind you, so the point of ‘how many people even know it’ is mute.