The Average Raid wasnât very well organized in Vanilla. Raid discipline in general wasnât as good in Vanilla as you think it was. Or have you missed all the discussions about how the typical 40 man raids had 15-ish players who were âDead weightâ that others carried? Those guys, and sometimes it was part of the other 25 that werenât, were the ones who were âhelpingâ over-write the buffs the raid leadership actually wanted to be up there.
I also know that on Mannoroth at the end of Vanilla, shadow priests being brought into raids were very much the exception not the rule.
Yes, we were aware of some world first guilds doing it, and that some of the top tier guilds on our server, including vodka, were experimenting with it. But it was hardly something that was taken as a given of âof course you bring a shadow priestâ to the Raid to buff your Warlocks.
That and well, finding PvE Shadopriests on a PvP sever in general was like finding a needle in a haystack, finding a good one being even more of a challenge.
Thatâs not what he is saying, he isnât saying that the debuff isnât worth it, he is saying that most pug groups will only bring dps classes and nothing else because they donât understand the metaâŚbut they understand it enough to bring only top dps classes. Which makes no sense.
On a side note, you mind linking that thread? Because whoever made that thread is extremely misinformed as warlocks are 2nd best dps in the game after a certain point.
Where have I said a Shadow Priest would be rejected by a Pug? Iâve been constantly bringing up the âaverage raidâ and distinguishing it from Pugs. Expressly because PUG raids will generally take what they can get.
So now youâre back to raids not bringing them because there is no raid discipline for debuffs? How would they have trouble gettings into raids that are unorganized and donât care who they bring when they are bringing in âdead weightâ anyway? What your arguing and what youâre saying are literally counter-intuitive to each other.
You canât say,
âRaids are unorganized and just bring whoever and have a lot of dead weightâ
and
âRaids wonât bring shadow priests because they want to min/max dpsâ
Itâs not all about that, but seriously, hereâs a gem:
you put warlocks with the s priest. Vampiric embrace heals lets them life trap with impunity. Far more efficient than having a healer priest do the debuff in all regards
except how much shadow damage you gunna do if you cant put up any of your dotsâŚ?â
Granted this person also believed that Classic had 8 debuff slots til ZG instead of 16 all along
How do you not understand that these two scenarios literally canât exist in the same raid. You literally described two different raids. How do you not get that?
You assume people are logical and internally consistent in their application of said logic.
You must not get out much.
It has happened before, it will happen again. It is very likely anybody looking to raid as a shadowpriest is going to encounter this. Unless they happen to be good enough to be playing in one of the âtop endâ raid guilds.
Not saying the positions are particularly valid, just that they exist. And I think youâll find Classic raids are going to continue to have problems properly managing their 16 debuff limit. Even with the tools available these days to help them find the people who knocked the debuffs off.
Ah okay, so it wasnât a thread discussing that shadow priests were bad, itâs just a thread where someone who doesnât understand vanilla dps at all commented on it claiming warlocks and spriests were bad. Thatâs a little different lol
Let me be crystal clear with you so there is no confusion. You didnât just describe a raid that doesnât make sense as in, itâs a bad raid. You described two completely different raids. Thatâs like me saying, âWell you see guilds will be making raids specifically with only melee, like rogues and warrios, so that means that the raid will only consist of magesâ.
I know of one such raid that made it well into Naxx during Vanilla which operated that way. (My guild parted ways with them before AQ, so donât look at me)
Nah, itâs mostly a simple question, but thereâs a few posters who tried to take it over with âlol shadow is bad!â and âlol, no one brings warlocksâ. Iâm going holy atm, but Iâd totally rock shadow when we need it, and if we get tbc, yea, going shadow.
Shadowguard and FW and infinitely more difficult to dispell as a priest is going to have at least 3-5 buffs up at most times. Not to mention they are either really low or no cooldown so putting them back up is effortless. DP is a 3 minute cooldown that gets cleansed on the first try everytime.
Itâs like that expression about âidiot proofingâ things. Nature provides a âbetterâ idiot who can defeat it.
You can continue to think Iâm delusional. Your world view is probably safer that way. Humanityâs ability to defeat itself never ceases to amaze. That said, a lot of Shadow Priests are going to encounter probems trying to get into nonPUG raids. And it isnât going to always be because they already have one.
Although anecdotally, it looks like a lot people are under the delusion theyâre going to be raiding as Shadow this time aroundâŚ
Dispelled many a fear ward on my vanilla undead priest. And come to think of it locks donât even have to dispel it, as their fear has no cooldown/they usually just kill spriests anyway.
A good priest can still play undead and do well. It is not as much of a gamechanger as you guys are making it out to be.
If you honestly think shadow priests will not make it into raids, then you just donât understand vanilla enough. I mean this sincerely. Idc what groups you think exist as the norm, they donât. Anyone who has raided vanilla raids over the last 5 years will tell you this. Idk what makes you think the pserver mentality and the retail classic mentality will be any different. Itâs not like pservers only brought in min/maxersâŚ
And just to be clear once again, Iâm not saying your delusional as in I think groups will be smarter than you think they will be. Iâm saying youâre delusional because you are literally not making any sense at all. Do you understand what Iâm saying to you or no?