How about super short dungeons that CC is a must

[Warzug-mankrik]

@Marsius-bleeding-hollow

The closest thing I can think of would be dungeon running in Classic, where the game is generally slower and more methodical as a whole. Pulling more than one pack can generally lead to a wipe.

If it’s easy, no matter what difficulty, people are going to pull everything

I suspect the playerbase/general public simply doesn’t have the patience for slow “must use multiple CCs on every single pull” dungeons anymore

From what I remember, they briefly brought back “must use multiple CCs on every single pull” back in Cataclysm and the general public hated it/massive backlash

Even in M+, the modern “hard dungeons”, using CC is fairly rare and mass-AOE pulls is the norm

[Goldenpaws-moon-guard]

The lack of patience is why they must be very short in duration. Some on here say “Higher keys”. I don’t want timed content. They are not my thing.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Warzug-mankrik

@Marsius-bleeding-hollow

The closest thing I can think of would be dungeon running in Classic, where the game is generally slower and more methodical as a whole. Pulling more than one pack can generally lead to a wipe.

If it’s easy, no matter what difficulty, people are going to pull everything

I suspect the playerbase/general public simply doesn’t have the patience for slow “must use multiple CCs on every single pull” dungeons anymore

From what I remember, they briefly brought back “must use multiple CCs on every single pull” back in Cataclysm and the general public hated it/massive backlash

Even in M+, the modern “hard dungeons”, using CC is fairly rare and mass-AOE pulls is the norm

Simple hard CC like like poly/sap/trap 3 mobs in a pack of 5 and take them 2 at a time is dead, but large pulls require a MUCH higher level of group coordination on interrupts, stuns, and other disrupts to not have the party explode.

For what it’s worth, when we replayed classic we didn’t use CC there either.

[Kettleform-dentarg]

@Marsius-bleeding-hollow

Pulling more than one pack can generally lead to a wipe

The main reason people didn’t pull entire rooms in Classic is because multi-target tanking was very limited. As soon as geared paladins showed huge pulls were possible in TBC, that’s how everyone wanted to do dungeons.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Jarlton-area-52

If the dungeon is very short and doesn’t take a lot of time then you probably wont need to take any breaks during it lol

Judging by how many people seem to love with constant uncontrollable diarrhea in all the anti-m+/timer threads, I think you’d be surprised.

[Sumwun-tichondrius]

Weren’t many of the classic dungeons on the long side? IIRC, doing a classic dungeon was an adventure that required a bit of time to get through. I ALWAYS think of the Sunken Temple. Man I miss that instance.

[Warzug-mankrik]

@Argorwal-ysera

when we replayed classic we didn’t use CC there either.

Key part quoted ^^^^

The average normie from the playerbase is much more aware of min-max culture/what the “best” is nowadays.

There’s lots of “choice” in the game as far as customizing your character/talents/playstyle - but lets be honest… like 98% of players in 2023 simply whip out their smartphone, go to Icy Veins or wowhead to lookup the “best” talent trees/loadouts, and just copy-paste it onto their (casual/non-hardcore) character without giving it a second thought

Back then when Classic/TBC was current, min-max culture had not yet spread in the consciousness of the general public/normies, and I clearly remember simple 4-5 packs often requiring multiple CCs (“focus , ice trap , sheep …”) like you mention

Shattered Halls heroic, when it was “current”, was almost impossible without using a few CCs on every single pack… it was rough

[Wulm-aerie-peak (Wulm)]

@Goldenpaws-moon-guard

Always a 3rd NPC in the group that must be controlled or wipe.

Literally Sygrin fight.

[Jarlton-area-52]

They should see their doctor about IBS instead of requesting short, untimed dungeons

[Qûor-proudmoore]

You know they tried this during CATA, want to take a guess how that went…

Now they were not super short as you suggest, but that really is not relevant. If people start to wipe for missing a CC in group content it will get ugly, like the forum on Sunday.

[Khlorós-moon-guard (Khlorós)]

They did that back in cata because everyone complained in wrath about how easy and simlpe dungeons were.

They then nerfed cata dungeons like 2 weeks post launch because of how much people were complaining about them.

[Sylsfear-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I love more technical fights, making players use more of their kit and think about the process of the fight, but let’s face it… with the groups today, they might as well just have the training dummies drop loot every one in a while. Mindless zerg rush, sans the Yakety Sax music. It’s Diablo without the interesting ever present cascade of loot. Pablum for the masses.

[Warzug-mankrik]

@Qûor-proudmoore

If people start to wipe for missing a CC in group PUG content it will get ugly,

Fixed/corrected

[Wartior-thrall]

Anyone, except classes without more thab a 4 second stun

[Qûor-proudmoore]

It’s really all about LFG.

You can’t put hard content in a queue system, pretty sure that’s why blizzard has not answered the call for M+ to have a queue, they remember how that went.

@Warzug-mankrik

Fixed/corrected

Thanks, I was working on that

[Kwashiorkor-ravenholdt]

I saw someone talking about that dungeon/raid in icecrown at argent tournament and I wish a lot more things were like that. That’s how raids should be, enough of these oversized areas that take forever to walk through just because. Most of us just do a raid or m+ for the gear nothing else. KEK. Okay I’m being a bit sarcastic but sadly it’s true in most cases.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Warzug-mankrik

@Argorwal-ysera

when we replayed classic we didn’t use CC there either.

Key part quoted ^^^^

The average normie from the playerbase is much more aware of min-max culture/what the “best” is nowadays.

There’s lots of “choice” in the game as far as customizing your character/talents/playstyle - but lets be honest… like 98% of players in 2023 simply whip out their smartphone, go to Icy Veins or wowhead to lookup the “best” talent trees/loadouts, and just copy-paste it onto their (casual/non-hardcore) character without giving it a second thought

Back then when Classic/TBC was current, min-max culture had not yet spread in the consciousness of the general public/normies, and I clearly remember simple 4-5 packs often requiring multiple CCs (“focus , ice trap , sheep …”) like you mention

Shattered Halls heroic, when it was “current”, was almost impossible without using a few CCs on every single pack… it was rough

Pretty much.

We can’t put the genie back in the bottle though. Min/maxing games is just general knowledge that goes along with the internet, and it extends beyond WoW to all multiplayer games.

Only in single player games where you choose to not look anything up does that level of exploration, self experimentation and learning, come into play.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Sylsfear-bloodsail-buccaneers

I love more technical fights, making players use more of their kit and think about the process of the fight, but let’s face it… with the groups today, they might as well just have the training dummies drop loot every one in a while. Mindless zerg rush, sans the Yakety Sax music. It’s Diablo without the interesting ever present cascade of loot. Pablum for the masses.

Higher keys are pretty darn technical where a missed global or slight misposition is a death and wipe. Also requires using a lot of your spellbook.

I don’t know if players really want that in lower end content.

[Goldenpaws-moon-guard]

@Sylsfear-bloodsail-buccaneers

I love more technical fights, making players use more of their kit and think about the process of the fight, but let’s face it… with the groups today, they might as well just have the training dummies drop loot every one in a while. Mindless zerg rush, sans the Yakety Sax music.

Nailed it. I call it the “TikTok” generation. No attention span.

[Goldenpaws-moon-guard]

@Argorwal-ysera

I don’t know if players really want that in lower end content.

Probably very few, but for us nerdy types who like slow and methodical, it would be very fun. As long as they didn’t take too long. (Because I do not like to sit for long periods, I prefer being out and about away from the computer).