Cool, you dont get to race. If you know (or alliance know) its not happening, they can chalk the loss up to what?
Not winning the fights.
We win plenty of team fights in wsg though.
There is a history of being disadvantaged from premade dodging and horde being able to bring the fight to the first alliance choke point at the game start. For the casual alliance in AV this has created a downward spiral of apathy among them which is only growing. The only way I see a change is for Blizz to go towards an older AV version.
How is that even remotely toxic? I didnât insult anyone, or attack them.
VAROTK I would not say you. but this is the mentality that is toxic. Thanks for your value insight on Horde Great, Alliance Suck. Because that is all your contributing.
PUG v PUG?
This, I completely get. I was on a dead Horde realm in Vanilla, and Alliance beat us into the dirt so much people quit.
Premade vs premade
Oh I dont doubt that. Alliance Premades have all the skill in the world, Horde with higher numbers will have a diluted talent pool.
I guess the issue at hand is - why was this not a problem before, and why is it now? If you look at the historical data, it shows no favoritism towards horde - even the devs themselves say it. It was an alliance dominated battleground. The cave was not an issue until 2.3.
In 2.3 it did, and it was changed. Today, it is still heavily alliance dominated. Most horde have this and IOC blacklisted.
This version lasted 31 days in the past if Iâm not mistaken. Not enough time to settle a meta also people already ranked and were preparing for tbc.
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I am contributing hard data - via patch notes, and developerâs confirmed stats of the win rates in AV. How is this not relevant?
This type of information is super important when you have a forum flooded with people - of both sides - spilling and spewing misinformation and demanding a fix of something that was not an issue before.
That type of information is needed here. I go back to your response of Reading is Fundamental. Thereâs a clear history there, and a clear presentation of issues from both sides, and information regarding how the fixes being suggested just arenât actually going to solve anything.
This isnât a horde vs alliance issue. Which was my entire point, this is a blizzard issue.
It wasnât.
Maybe in a single battlegroup. Otherwise it was horde heavy in most battlegroups and by a large margin
And you even acknowledge this at this point because the 1.12 AV was the S1 TBC AV.
It was horde domianted due the 1.12 changes and alliance simple got tired of being gy camped and stoped playing it. A lot of allaince were already going BE too.
You guys lives in denial. at this point.
You are always fighting against outnumbered people in a map that as you stated heavily favors your position. There is no work around, either premade with minded-like individuals or lose against such huge disavantage.
Btw once cave moved back alliance pretty much dominated AV till legion.
I would be surprised when horde doesnt give any argument which isnât a simple lie to backup their âZug zug me bettahâ
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Not to sound insulting, but I said
VAROTK I would not say you. That was clearly me saying you were not being Toxic. I was Replying to Primordial who I believe just saying Alliance Suck / Horde Good does nothing.
âIt wasnât.
Maybe in a single battlegroup. Otherwise it was horde heavy in most battlegroups and by a large marginâ
I literally linked an article where the developers say it was and give statistics.
âAnd you even acknowledge this at this point because the 1.12 AV was the S1 TBC AV.
It was horde domianted due the 1.12 changes and alliance simple got tired of being gy camped and stoped playing it. A lot of allaince were already going BE too.â
This is totally false as well (the part being horde dominated it definitely wasnât, again read the article linked).
You guys lives in denial. at this point.
You are always fighting against outnumbered people in a map that as you stated heavily favors your position. There is no work around, either premade with minded-like individuals or lose against such huge disavantage.Btw once cave moved back alliance pretty much dominated AV till legion.
I would be surprised when horde doesnt give any argument which isnât a simple lie to backup their âZug zug me bettahâ
I said it favored horde in TBC once 2.3 hit and they altered the game. Not in 1.12. How on earth did I just use a simple lie as an argument? I literally used game patch notes and developer interviews.
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You minify the core problems associated with the game and dismiss valid complaints with âsorry Alliance.â
The reason horde win AV is a combination of things. Map is definitely one aspect, and if you think horde racials donât contribute, there is no helping you. Even if you think they donât help in AV (which is wrong) they drew a lot more people to horde side than alliance side. Horde vastly outnumber ally, which means if the percentage of hardcore pvpers was equal for both factions, horde would have more than twice as many hardcore pvpers overall, because they have more than twice as many people.
Your history of AV is decent, but you also gloss over a few things, most likely because of bias.
If you look at this situation objectively, youâd see that horde have a fat advantage.
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The article states Vanilla AV.
1.12 lasted 1 month and stayed up till TBC
You should read what you link.
1.12 AV was TBC AV how is this false?
2.3 is the 3 TBC patch where this was fixed. Afterwards alliance pretty much won all the time, by horde standarts this mean we were more agressive and inteligent lmao.
It didnt favor horde at all.
Mostly because most AVs from TBC alliance won and from wrath to legion it was over 75% win rate for alliance just like IOC used to.
Chekc up those again.
When the epiphany hits you will be done with lying.
I do not have all official stuff but I can at least try to link sources:
Vanilla 1.12 Patch 22 Aug 2006 [Patch 1.12]
Vanilla Patch 2.0.1 5 December 2006 [2.0.1]
So 1.12 was about 5 months per this documentation.
1.12 AV was TBC AV how is this false?
2.3 is the 3 TBC patch where this was fixed. Afterwards alliance pretty much won all the time, by horde standarts this mean we were more agressive and inteligent lmao.
2.3 AV was fixed FOR HORDE. Not alliance. 2.4 was when the cave was moved due to the changes in 2.3, which meant ally could no longer win AV.
It didnt favor horde at all.
Mostly because most AVs from TBC alliance won and from wrath to legion it was over 75% win rate for alliance just like IOC used to.
The article states Vanilla AV.
1.12 lasted 1 month and stayed up till TBC
You should read what you link.
From the article: It was only in Patch 2.3, over two years after Alterac Valley was releasedbalance changes were made. Before the changes, Kalgan went on the record to state that Alliance won as much as 75% to 80% of AV games while win-loss ratios in other BGs were just about even, indicating that the problem was with the map. A few changes were made in Patch 2.2, which Kalgan reported drew the gap closer to Alliance winning about 60% of AV matches.
So effectively this is THAT VERSION of AV, being played in the SAME WAY. Which the developers have said 75-80% of the matches were WON BY ALLIANCE until 2.3 when HORDE WON nearly all, which then lead to the change IN 2.4.
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AV has been fun - havenât lost a single one since the âFixâ. At least 12 straight wins of varying times 25 mins - 1hr 10min. Every one has had appropriate D calls, and decent offense. But when equal size group meets each other, Horde usually wins out. I just farm gold or rep when in queue - probably wouldnât farm as much without the wait, so win-win.
I agree!! Unequivocally, it is how I think about it and feel about it too. We may play Classic but not in Classic Times, people have much more knowledge of the game, know the game. Very good points!
Also, in the mean time, till Developer Decide what to do here is how to Balance things as this Strategy applies to this version of AV.
Cheers!
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But isnât that where your premades are? Get a clue