Horde and Alliance: Balance of Power

So in playing the Alliance half of the 8.1 quests, I’ve come to think the text is a little more nuanced than expected in regards to the balance of power between the Horde and the Alliance.

Part 1: The Alliance has less soldiers than the Horde.

Whether this is a factor of war loses, a more prolific portfolio of species, or the Alliance simply being in decline, but it seems to me that the Horde on average outnumbers the Alliance by a significant margin. Wrymbane compounds this by saying “Overwhelming numbers have always been a tactic of the Horde.”

Now this could simply mean that the Horde has higher concentrations of troops in the warzones it chooses, but the point stands that the Horde often outnumbers the Alliance in battle. This compounded by the physical size and power of many of the Hordes people’s.

Part 2: The Alliance has more heroes.

With Jaina, Tyrande, Malfurion, and Velen beng chief among them, the Alliance has much stronger individual, powerful characters supporting overwised numbered, and physically weaker soldiers. Not to mention that each of the example heroes are from nations that have been destroyed, ravaged, or heavily damaged by Horde races.

Part 3: Sylvanas and Saurfang.

After the events of the Cataclysm the Forsaken are likely by the far the largest army in the Horde. Hillsbrad, Gilneas, Silverpine, and Anderhol all would have fed that army to great proportions.

The orcs on the other hand always maintained that honor until Garrosh got much of them killed, but even at that orcs are defined as one of if not the most prolific race on Azeroth. Other than that all of their people can fight in one capacity or another, orcs mature more quickly than humans (Granted this is by old lore, but I’ve yet to see in contradicted).

This to me explains the greatest reason the likes of Baine and CO don’t immediately rebel against Sylvanas: Doing so would be as geopolitically foolish as if the Kaldorei up and left the Alliance. The Burning of Teldrassil was evil, but it did succeed in the short term of keeping the Horde united against the Alliance…if only a means of survival.

Part 4: Sylvanas is not morally grey, yet.

She’s someone was brutally murdered, who’s mind, soul and body was torn to pieces by Arthas. She is also the Ranger General that did, and still does, defend Silvermoon. I expect to see this dichotomy play out more as we see her back against a wall and as she faces resistance from the Horde itself.

Part 5: Superweapons and why they haven’t been used.

Another poster came on here the other day with a suggestion to textually confirm that the Vindicaar and the more potent forms of the Plague to be reserved in a sort of MAD scenario. One line of dialogue from Velen saying it’s in reserve for a more opportune attack could fix that, but even then.

The Plague is upsetting to most of Sylvanas’ allies, and we therefore only see its used when the majority of forces present are Undead and Goblin. That, or in situations like Lordaeron. Not to mention that it ruins the land it’s used on, and the Horde needs resources and territory.

The Vindicaar on the other hand is a powerful, but completely irreplaceable weapon that can only be at once place at a time. Given that we know their are cosmic threats out there, it’s surprising the Lightforged are even helping the Alliance with ground operations.

In Conculsion: The Alliance is weaker as a nation, but better united and with stronger heroes and weapons. The Horde is more populus, and has more of it’s relatively simpler weapons than the Alliance.

Part 1: This would have to be a retcon. I don’t see how the Horde has managed to even out the military power yet. Going into BfA the Horde were severely handicapped and not as power as the Alliance militarily. This of course could possible change as Suramar is the largest city on Azeroth but it seems more like the Nightfallen faction and their allies have joined the horde rather than the Nightborne race itself.

Part 2: Any horde hero that wouldn’t just stand around (other than Saurfang) have been written out of the story for their New Lich Queen Warchief.

Part 3: This is somewhat true. MoP ended with Horde coming out of a civil war with a lot of deaths. Silvermoon and Undercity probably had the largest Armies up to this point.

Part 4: Sylvanas is evil. Christie “The Fanfiction Princess” Golden wrote in her crap book that Sylvanas hates the living and she wants to make everyone undead to serve her and that life is her enemy. She is evil. She has had expansions to have character growth but once Arthas was gone they needed another Character to take their Undead leader role and Bolvar was once an Alliance leader so obvious he can’t be evil.

Part 5: This is not a real “MAD” scenario. Truthfully the writers can’t write this story so people have to make excuses why different things aren’t being used in the war

Conclusion: The Alliance has been the strongest superpower on Azeroth up until BfA. They keep losing like idiots but it’s important to understand that their losses are occuring at the same time as Horde losses. If we exclude the Nightborne (beause we don’t really know if all of them joined the Horde) the Alliance is far more populous than the Horde. The alliance heroes are all God-like and it’s causing problems in the story. Jaina should not some god tier mage that is far and above the PC who fought against the Fallen Titan soul of Argus, but she is and she can’t lose. Tyrande is now some night warrior garbage but it feels forced that the horde have to run away from them with Nathanos. The lore is all over the place and inconsistent. The Alliance are the stronger faction, but the writers need a faction war so they write them losing which gives off the feeling that they are actually weaker but striking back against the horde because they are just so tactically good with strong leaders.

5 Likes

You had me until here. Or do you mean Sylvanas is still morally black?

10 Likes

Are they? In Lordaeron, for example, the Alliance had terrible losses, but with both side’s corpses being raised as undead, it seems quite possible the Horde actually had gains.

4 Likes

1: You seem to be forgetting about Legion, where textually the Alliance suffered worse than the Horde (Mainly due to the Broken Shore). Now certainly both were wounded, but Sylvanas herself says that the Horde is capable of rebounding from it faster than the Alliance, which is in good part why exactly she started the war when she did.

2: Rokhan, Baine, Vol’Gin’s ghost, all the well developed Shal’Dorei, Saurfang, Zappyboi, Etrigg, Nathanos, and others with an active role in the expansion would like a word with you. You’re just wrong here, and not addressing the point I was making; The Alliance has stronger heroes.

3: Silvermoon would still have a fairly small population, but I stand by the orcs would still be among the strongest race by the numbers in the Horde.

4: Sylvanas’ story is incomplete, don’t be a reactionary about it. She’s done evil things now, she may end up doing good things later.

5: Well…yeah? Isn’t that obvious? Why do people on these forums have such a toxic response to filling in the blanks of the story? Maybe its because I have roleplayed the whole time I’ve played WoW, but I really failed to see the fault in headcanon where canon is silent. It’s not like Blizzard is gonna do less work, and it’s not an apology for them either. Screw Blizzard, I enjoy the setting regardless of their involvement.

1 Like

The corpses that were raised were only those in one fairly small area. Game scale and all that, but I seriously doubt that the total of both Alliance and Horde dead in that one area exceeded the number killed elsewhere on the battlefield.

EDIT: And that’s leaving aside the question of whether the skeletons even persist after the battle, as Kirango says below. There definitely wasn’t time to raise anyone else after that particular battle, since the Horde was busy retreating.

  1. They’ve mentioned this a few times with the most explicit one being Anduin talking about how now they’re recruiting farmers. Stormwind is hurting for soldiers, Ironforge hasn’t been too prominent from my recollection so they’re an unknown in terms of fighting force, Gnomes are relying on mechanical soldiers instead as evidenced by the War Campaign, Night Elves are finite and were basically on the losing side until the ascension seemed to give them a big boost, Void Elves are a .01% of a race that was around 10% of its original numbers after the Scourge attacked, Worgen seem to be on the same issue as Kul’Tiras and the Humans (A lot of soldiers but not enough to afford losses), Pandas… exist?, and Draenei are kind of there.
    Compare this to what seems to be an Orcapalooza. Orcs have always had sheer numbers and can train a grunt up much faster. Plus you have the neverending supply of dead bodies to turn into Forsaken (though we appear to be hurting that possibility with every patch and I’m curious if all the Val’kyr are going to die off).

  2. Yep. Thrall is gone, Grommash is currently in limbo as to whether he’s alive or not, Saurfang is against many of Sylvanas’s actions, Baine is showing contention for what’s going on. The only heroes Horde has that aren’t openly against their Warchief or missing are Nathanos, Rexxar, Garona, and Rokhan. Not really a strong cast of heroes especially to anyone who’s not an orc or undead. Compare that to Glenn, Muradin, Malfurion, Tyrande, Mekkatorque, Jaina, Turalyon…

  3. I can’t really comment on this.

  4. Nah mate, she’s evil.

Not to mention that it ruins the land it’s used on, and the Horde needs resources and territory.

  1. This to me is the biggest reason the blight hasn’t been used en masse (except for BLIGHTING A FRIGGIN MOONWELL). As for the Vindicaar my thought process has always been that with the current weakened state of Azeroth (and her WOONS), firing the Vindicaar might have an unintended effect that causes irreparable damage to the planet and potentially has an adverse reaction to the Azerite.

This is directly contradicted in both pre-launch novellas. Anduin, Sylvanas and others comment on the Alliance and Horde being evenly matched. In fact, Sylvanas thinks the Horde has an advantage in that it can recover more quickly from losses.

1 Like

I’m not sure if Suramar is actually the largest city on Azeroth, or if it’s just the only city we’ve seen that wasn’t built in gamescale, but rather at or near its actual size.

The troops “raised as undead” after Lordaeron are mindless skeletons that probably crumbled once Sylvanas got a few miles away; no matter how many there were, I don’t think they count as Forsaken.

Likewise, of all the people of Hillsbrad and northern Arathi, most were not trained soldiers; it’s entirely likely that some of the raised forsaken took up arms, but I don’t think it’s one-for-one of human deaths to new forsaken soldiers.

6 Likes

Sylvanas, could cure all disease, end world hunger, bring democracy to China and it still wouldn’t be enough to atone for what she’s done. Anything that doesn’t end with Sylvanas in an unmarked, shallow grave is unacceptable.

7 Likes

It is these kind of hardline stances that make things impossible to discuss.

16 Likes

Hard to discuss with idiots that think Sylvanas is redeemable.

4 Likes

Nice whataboutism.

You don’t know what that is.

1 Like

‘Viewing a disgraceful for Sylvanas as the only acceptable outcome makes it hard to have a discussion.’
‘BUT WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE THAT WANT SYVLANAS REDEEMED?!’

What’s there to discuss? Blizzard wanted Alliance players to hate Sylvanas. Killing her is how the Alliance resolves their story. That conflicts with what the Horde wants.

5 Likes

Accepting degrees of compromise between the two.

We won’t. We’ve been through this in MoP, and neither side appreciated the ending.

5 Likes

I was fine with MoP’s ending. I only took issue with the travesty of Warlords.

Also, a failed compromise does not mean all compromises will fail.

Then you have more faith in Blizzard than I do.

5 Likes