I was going to say something, and then you said it for me.
In other words, the Horde IQ is already fairly low.
Mind you, I don’t think the direction I’d want to see taken is one of Civil War. The goal would be integration of the Amani into the Horde, after all. Part of that has to be airing out past grievances with the Blood Elves, and vice versa.
I just think there’s a potential for it to work if the Amani can get the Horde to think of the Blood Elves the same way they think of the Alliance: unwilling to see beyond the past and accept people can change.
Yes, the Horde and Blood Elves have been allied for nearly two decades, but it hasn’t been two decades of hand-holding, brotherly love. It’s been two decades of, “the world is against us,” with the occasional issues cropping up (again, I point to Garrosh, and then Sylvanas).
Both of these issues were swiftly resolved. Lor’themar was all gung-ho about the Horde on the Isle of Thunder post-Purge, while Sylvanas was arguably even less of an issue, given Lor’themar sided with Sylvanas with no issue despite fearing that she had the hearts and minds of the people or whatever he said in Nazjatar.
The Amani could well get on friendly terms with the Horde through the Zandalari, but there is no need for them to fully join the Horde when the Horde already has the Revantusk Tribe. It would just take away from them.
All they would see is the Amani unwilling to make that change by rising up twice within the past 20 years to retake Quel’Thalas.
It might have started with “the world is against us”, but not anymore. Each time the loyalty of the blood elves was tested they proved it lay with the Horde. An Amani short of being as magically persuasive as Daval Prestor isn’t going to be able to drive a wedge between the western Horde and the blood elves. Both the Darkspear and Revantusk tribes would speak out in favour of the blood elves and the orcs have no reason to side with the Amani because they share some meagre similarities that they already share with the Revantusk and in some ways also the blood elves.
Firstly, as you noted, that was “post Purge.” Of course he was going to be gung-ho about the Horde, because the second point got foiled.
That second point is, he was in discussion to leave the Horde because Garrosh was using his people as fodder for his war. Blood Elves were giving up their lives so Garrosh could paint some distant continent red, all while kvetching about how much the Blood Elves were a drain on the Horde’s coffers.
That even ignores Sylvanas strong-arming Quel’Thalas into devoting resources and manpower to the Northrend conflict right after having a costly civil war with their prince and a near third Legion invasion of the planet right on their back doorstep. There was also Sylvanas suggesting the raising of fallen Blood Elves during the Siege of Orgrimmar.
That isn’t to say that the Blood Elves haven’t found their place within the Horde, or aren’t loyal to it. My point is, the Blood Elves and the rest of the Horde haven’t been a perfect match or never faced internal conflict before. Really, no race on either faction hasn’t experienced some degree of schism with their own faction. We saw it with the Night Elves going off to reclaim Darkshore in BFA, Moira sealing off Ironforge just before Cataclysm in a bid to Queen herself, the Gnomes sealing themselves off in the Third War to avoid drawing Alliance resources from other battles, etc…
The point is, the Horde and Blood Elves have had internal conflicts in the past.
Every race in the Horde has had internal conflicts with the Horde at this point. In the end most of them bound together against whatever caused that internal conflict.
Unlike the Amani who had been at war with the Horde ever since TBC until like BfA.
Could say the same thing about the Zandalari, but then, WHOOPS! Allies with the Horde.
The point is, if Blizzard wanted to write up a story with the Amani joining the Horde that included dividing the Horde, then it’s hardly impossible. One could argue about whether it’d be, “Good Writing,” or not, but I think the western Horde in particular would think twice before branding ANYONE as being, “beyond redemption.”
If the Horde cannot accept the idea that the Amani could change, then all they’re doing is being hypocrites, insisting the Alliance believe the same of themselves, but denying that possibility to the Amani.
You’re right. But the difference there is Zul more or less acting on his own as opposed to the entire Zandalari Empire.
There is a huge difference between the Amani redeeming themselves and the Amani somehow driving a wedge between the Horde and the blood elves in their favour.
Again, if the Amani change, the western Horde would be hypocrites to refuse to believe it. By the very act of seeking diplomacy with the Horde, of sending people to Orgrimmar, of sharing their history and cultural roots, they’re demonstrating the strides they’ve made as a people towards change.
And if the Blood Elves were to call Bullsh*t on them, then what? That just makes the Blood Elves seem as hypocritical and intolerant as the Horde has always seen the Alliance.
This doesn’t even need to be some engineered plot on the part of the Amani. They could have genuinely changed and moved past their millennia of hatred and racial prejudice to grow. I mean, they’re at the point where it’s grow or die. All that needs to happen for division to crop up is for the Blood Elves to doubt them. That’s it. Even if the Amani go, “I can see why, but actually we’ve changed, we don’t even care about your land anymore,” the Blood Elves would be hard pressed to believe it, and in that arrogance, pride, and intolerance, the western Horde see’s the Alliance the elves once were a part of.
It’d be on the Blood Elves to demonstrate growth and a willingness to change at that point. Would/could they? Oh I’m positive of it. I’m sure by the end of Midnight Liadrin would have herself an Amani girlfriend or something. Point is, division would be a natural consequence of a story like that, because as you’ve so clearly demonstrated, no one has any reason to believe the Amani have changed, but as I’ve noted, the Horde can’t very well refuse to believe it’s even possible without condemning themselves in the process.
Like I said, everyone in the setting has to ignore thousand of years worth of Amani aggression to believe a single thing they say.
I’m all for change. But change that makes sense. The story would need to explain why NOW the Amani decided they wanted to be good little boys and girls and join the rest of the world in peace
The only way the horde can progress is if they splinter and fight amongst themselves for the fourth time! isnt going to over very well for a lot of people
Like, no one here is opposed to the Amani redeeming themselves. But none of what you are now describing is what you’ve said before, and none of it would somehow drive a wedge between the blood elves and the western Horde - the Darkspear in particular have no more of a reason to trust the Amani than blood elves do. If anything the blood elves would be elated if the Amani once and for all said “we do not want to retake Quel’Thalas anymore, we just want to live in peace with the Horde.”
Ultimately it should not, at least in my opinion, come at the expense of the already Horde aligned Revantusk Tribe. What would the Amani add to the Horde that they can’t?
This would only be the… what? Fourth time the writers have done that?
Blood Elves joining the Horde…
Zandalari joining the Horde (I count this twice because Pandaren were also in the Horde)…
Nightborne in the Horde, arguably?
The lore reason: “Teetering on the brink of destruction, the Amani decided not to try the same thing they always did, and instead do something different.”
The true reason: “All these controversial stories of ancient hatred and racial prejudice aren’t a good look for Microsoft and it’s studios, so we’re redeeming the villains! Also, playable Forest Trolls to sweeten the deal. Marketing says the metrics for, ‘nostalgia,’ are quite profitable.”
Not disagreeing with you there. My point in this conversation is how it could happen and make a modicum of sense.
Whether or not I think it should happen is a different can of worms. To be honest, while I’m not opposed to the Amani getting their eleventh hour redemption, I also think it’d be fairly lore consistent for them to doom themselves, consumed by their hatred and prejudice.
I still pity how terrible they became as enemies. Often they threaten to do something then we slay them all before they can make a dent against us. (Similar trouble with vanilla enemies besides centaurs and defias)
If they did that a lot of native people would complain rightfully. Making the Amani evil because they are just that spiteful is the worst idea you can pull with them.
